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brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110169 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 1:44 PM

Too much Arsing around if you ask me Ade! Wink

Good points you make all the same

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17 Aug 2010 - 1:44 PM

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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade  1014728 forum posts England216 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 2:19 PM

.....I'm asking people to arse around less Wink

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61583 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 3:23 PM

not sure im liking the concept here Ade,
honest and truthfull critique is required by everyone on the site top to bottom level and to be truthfull if it was delivered that way no one would mind. in my opinion it should be totally constructive and delivered with tact and diplomacy, the site tell us so, if its not its worth nothing.

i seen loads of club judges make sweeping statements and not be able to back them up and they look foolish in the final analysis.
i like most people can take any critisism if its honest and meant in good faith or even in someones opinion but if someone says something is **** just to make them self look good i dont think its in any way productive.

it seems to me this is just going to incite argument between people who enjoy it for its own sake.

hope im not pI***ing on someones parade but it looks to me like it could end in tears and i would have thought there was enough of them recently,

scores seem to be bombing and people drifting away already from what i see.
Phil

Jarmara
Jarmara  437 forum posts United Kingdom
17 Aug 2010 - 3:31 PM

As a begginner I am finding this group really helpful , I like blunt honest comments. We all have diffrent tastes so somethings might not be our cup of tea, It would be a dull old world if we all had the same taste.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade  1014728 forum posts England216 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 3:34 PM

The concept came from someone else on another thread, Phil

I just facilitated it by promoting the Group idea (then I've been trying to keep a flow of photos going into it to give it some legs, and made suggestions to try to keep people being objective)

Its totally optional to join - you can just ignore its existance and live in blissful ignorance of the group

People who upload a shot know what to expect from the group

If people get offended, just leave the group

also, scores and activity always dips in the summer - people are on holiday.

It's probably the busiest group on the site at the moment, so it's generating interest, the lack of which is the biggest problem with the site.

see how it goes. if people do see it as a chance to be horrible, then I'll probably leave the group

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61583 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 3:38 PM

sounds better put that way
Phil

ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 3:40 PM

Good points - but surely this is not a case of either/or it is a case of and/and - in other words yes it is incumbent upon us all that we are honest and sensitive to others in our comments and criticisms - but at the same time a group wishing to vent true feeling with gloves off - still honest and truthful but no longer worried about the flinching recipient or that they might not get a 'clickback' etc can co-exist.

Could turn nasty but so can 'nice light' and 'wow' when they are not reciprocated - I think it is worth a shot - its out of harms way and I don't think it can possibly contribute to attrition/retention rates on EPZ to be honest.
Smile

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61583 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 3:50 PM


Quote: but at the same time a group wishing to vent true feeling with gloves off - still honest and truthful but no longer worried about the flinching recipient or that they might not get a 'clickback' etc can co-exist.

its this that worries me, who would want to vent off at another member or at a picture. if its not right they need to know how to fix it, not be attacked for not being up to the mark (in the attackers opinion)
Phil

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade  1014728 forum posts England216 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 3:52 PM

yup - the and/and thing is true.

As a commenter,

"I don't like it"

and

"nice pic"


are the same thing, just a positive and negative version of the same thing anyway

These really are not "telling it how it is"

Listing things like...

Overexposed nose
too much room to left
shadows are too harsh...


are genuine points that someone can address

This is "telling it how it is"


If we can all stick to that latter method, with a bit of elaboration when needed, it'll be a happy place - well a construtive one anyway Wink



EDIT....

Phil - I think (hope) ketch was being tongue-in-cheek there Wink

Last Modified By ade_mcfade at 17 Aug 2010 - 3:53 PM
Jestertheclown
17 Aug 2010 - 3:53 PM


Quote: People who upload a shot know what to expect from the group

I think that sums t up pretty well.

If people come here unwittingly or just out of interest, they're under no obligation to upload anything or make themselves into a target.
There are enough comments posted on here now that anyone just browsing will be left in no doubt as to what they might be letting themselves in for.

I'll second everything ketch has said above as well.

Jester.

User_Removed
17 Aug 2010 - 4:33 PM


Quote: I don't think it can possibly contribute to attrition/retention rates on EPZ to be honest

As long as the purpose and approach are clear, and posters know what to expect, it shouldn't contribute to the attrition rate - if you don't like it you can leave the group without quitting ePz as a whole.

If it gets some people's interest and gets them more involved in the site, and it has been very active, it could surely contribute to the retention of members - it's something else to interest and involve some people.

There's bound to be some problems and it doesn't answer the need for more reflective and involved critique, but if you want a view of possible problems with a shot you should get it.

There's still the danger that it becomes a list of standard technical 'faults' and restricts creativity rather than encourages, but it probably has its place.

CaptivePhotons
CaptivePhotons e2 Member 111517 forum postsCaptivePhotons vcard England2 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 6:17 PM

Prospective new members to the group should browse the pictures already posted, from that they can see what type of comment to expect, if they are unhappy with the reception they are likely to recieve then they shouldn't post an image.

This group has already invigorated my interest in epz and has made me rethink the way I am taking pictures, I for one am pleased that Ade stated it and continues to promote it and I hope that I can continue to be an active member of the group in its current format.

Well done Ade and thank you.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade  1014728 forum posts England216 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 12:18 AM

Cheers - fingers crossed it can keep ticking over with the right "thick skinned" people participating Wink

one thing I'm seeing is the different emphasis people put on flaws - there's lots of comments on things I'd not even noticed. Makes you look twice Smile

looboss
looboss  73124 forum posts United Kingdom7 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 12:44 AM

I have now participated in this group with one critique and one photo!
Will wait to read the result Smile

keith selmes
18 Aug 2010 - 9:47 AM


Quote: comments on things I'd not even noticed

I just got one comment, and thats exactly it, so its useful.


Not as brutal as I expected. (so far ...)

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