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Tell it how it is......


ade_mcfade Plus
10 15.1k 216 England
18 Aug 2010 9:53AM
When did you upload it keith? Give people time - it's not as busy as the main galleries.

What's it a shot of by the way - not sure if I've seen it ?

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ketch Plus
7 770 50 Turks And Caicos Islands
18 Aug 2010 10:00AM
Yes my comments about the 'flinching recipient' were very much 'tounge in cheek' - but I do think the 'telling it like it is' group is actually a superbly helpful arena and not only for the poster - I also think in terms of disciplined critique it is an excellent exercise for the viewer too. This is because it is not about 'gloves off' comment but it is about direct, honest and constructive notes about an image.

The viewer knows the boundaries as does the poster and no photographers were intentionally harmed in the making of this group.

One observation, having left a few 'direct' but certainly not brutal comments, I am now a little fearful of posting an image. Recommendation to anyone joing the group, post first and critique your fellow group memembers second, might be a better way to go!!
ade_mcfade Plus
10 15.1k 216 England
18 Aug 2010 10:15AM
Maybe that should be a condition of entry to the group - you can't comment till you've added a shot Wink

The group's and "open" one, so it's probably too late to enforce that... and I'm not sure I could be bothered policing it either Wink
ketch Plus
7 770 50 Turks And Caicos Islands
18 Aug 2010 10:33AM
Might just be worth adding a recommendation somewhere along the lines of 'for your own comfort and safety you may find it easier to post your first image before you comment on other group users uploads'. Just a thought ...
keith selmes 11 7.1k 1 United Kingdom
18 Aug 2010 10:53AM

Quote:Give people time

I meant "just had one comment" as in just now rather than only one Smile
And one comment is any case more useful than 10 empty votes

Quote:Maybe that should be a condition of entry to the group - you can't comment till you've added a shot
Over at photo.sig they recommend 3 crits to one upload as being fair.
In fact they used to ration your uploads according how many crits you'd done.
Rev2 Plus
5 244 2 United Kingdom
18 Aug 2010 10:29PM
I've just joined and made my first comments. I give it a week before I get banned at this rate. Wink Sometimes I'm too truthful for my own good. I'll have to dig out a photo so folk can get their own back, shouldn't take long.
Jestertheclown 6 6.6k 245 England
18 Aug 2010 11:51PM
I joined earlier as well.
I haven't said anything yet. A week? We'll see!
Xiaoli 6 661 14 South Africa
19 Aug 2010 8:19AM
I had a good squizz around the group just now and read a number of comments on a number of different photos and I have come to the conclusion that you all have forgotten how to just LOOK at a photo. Nearly all the comments still focus on technicalities - fussing about lines and technique and photoshop. What about composition and even more simply - does the image work for you? Does it convey something? I admit that it might be my personal preference coming out but I prefer a technically less than perfect shot that evokes something in me over a technically perfect shot that is just bleh.
discreetphoton Plus
10 3.5k 20 United Kingdom
19 Aug 2010 9:21AM
All? Really? I don't think we're looking at the same set of pictures. Technical shots are getting lots of technical comments, but you'd expect that. Some of the documentary ones have some really good comments on statement of purpose and narrative content.
Geraint 8 715 34 Wales
19 Aug 2010 9:28AM
I disagree Xiaoli. My comments have included some technical improvements, but also my emotional responses, and how the 'story' in a photograph can be better conveyed. Why don't you join and provide your style of critique? The group is going really well, and your input could carry it further in the direction it's going.
Geraint
SteveCharles 12 2.3k 18 England
19 Aug 2010 9:36AM
I think my critiques have been a reasonable mix of the conceptual and the technical so far. I'm often more interested in the concept and purpose, but you still need technique to make it work.
Xiaoli 6 661 14 South Africa
19 Aug 2010 9:41AM
well I didn't look at every photo so yes there maybe well be some of the type of comments as you both say. However on the photos I did look at (about 10) the majority of comments were directed at what I would call nitpicky technicalities. I know the entire point is to "tell it like it is" but my question still is - is the point lifeless technical perfection or to take photos that invoke a reaction?

Ok fine if you are taking certain kinds of photos then technical perfection is essentially all there is - but this isn't a forum/website that caters to those kind of photos on the whole. The majority of people here aim for some kind of artistic component to their work which implies an emotive response in the viewer. It has long been my opinion that 'critique' is almost solely confined to 'technical' even if you ask for critique in the critique gallery the replies are focused on what is technically wrong rather than composition or artistic merit.

I still prefer a technically less than perfect shot which I could get nitpicky about but prefer not to over a technically perfect but lifeless / soulless image that says absolutely nothing to me.
ade_mcfade Plus
10 15.1k 216 England
19 Aug 2010 9:45AM
If you read the "den rules", the initial idea was to write down some bulletpoints on what you think is wrong with the shot.

It's not intended to be a critique group that goes into "feelings" towards a shot, or indepth critique, there are other places for that - the Critique Gallery being the main one. This group is supposed to be quick, punchy and to the point.

Xiaoli - your comments are irrelevent to the group, because what you are assuming about the group's ethos is incorrect. Its a bit like assuming that you can get milk from a bull - it looks a bit like a cow, but when you take a closer look, you realise that you're not going to get any milk... at least not any you'd like to drink Wink

Now if you feel that your vision of what we should be doing has a place on the site, by all means start a group to do that.
zebraboy 10 197 Australia
19 Aug 2010 9:47AM
And the group's ethos in a nutshell is.......
whipspeed Plus
10 4.1k 22 United Kingdom
19 Aug 2010 9:53AM
Agree with you there Steve, you need technique to make shots work and learning good technique is surely a good basis for any photographer. Yes you need a photograph to work for people, but there is nothing wrong with it being technically good as well, that is usually the the thing that either makes or breaks a shot for me.

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