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Tell it how it is......


dEOSnnis70 4 19 United Kingdom
8 Sep 2010 4:57PM
Where is everyone?

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strawman 10 22.0k 16 United Kingdom
8 Sep 2010 5:30PM

Quote:Where is everyone?


There is a wild party with strippers over at Pete's house. Sadly Pete decided to e the stripper hiself so they will be back sometime, perhaps clawing at their eyes. CB has offered to do the conciliating.
Pete e2
13 18.5k 96 England
8 Sep 2010 5:31PM

Quote:Sadly Pete decided to e the stripper hiself so they will be back sometime, perhaps clawing at their eyes.

I've got to issue the refunds first and I'd already spent the money on the yacht refit
strawman 10 22.0k 16 United Kingdom
8 Sep 2010 6:12PM
Ah sad and I guess the Rolls is not getting easier to run either. Grin
ade_mcfade e2
10 14.8k 216 England
14 Sep 2010 11:44AM
Well we've been going quite a while, have 79 memebers of the group, but only a small hardcore of about 5-10 contributing.

Just wondering why others have stopped uploading/commenting in the group?

Is it a bit too soft?
A bit to harsh?
Photos that are being uploaded not interesting people?
People just not interested in getting honest feedback?

Comments welcome, tweaks can be made to entice people back if needed Smile
devlin 4 651 39 India
14 Sep 2010 12:04PM
No i find it interesting enough but find the photo's section a bit difficult to handle i guess there is no re-size option while uploading and that makes some of the shots go off screen and one needs to scroll up and down to view the whole image which gives me a distorted view of the whole shot, especially if iam using my laptop or netbook...the home PC, which has a bigger screen is pretty much a domain of the Missus so cant use that one as often as i would like to Wink
dEOSnnis70 4 19 United Kingdom
14 Sep 2010 7:07PM
IS IT..........me???
Paintman e2
8 876 173 United Kingdom
14 Sep 2010 9:48PM
I've had a rest from the group for a few days because life gets in the way at timesSmile

I'm finding that some photos I have no opinion on or the genre is one I know very little about so I don't give an answer. Another reason for not commenting is that I can't always offer a way to improve the shot.
ade_mcfade e2
10 14.8k 216 England
14 Sep 2010 10:47PM
Yeah - I've missed quite a few of the "natural" ones as I've no real interest in them so can't really add anything useful.

You don't have to add any tips in this group, you can just say what's wrong - so don't feel you need to elaborate with help etc.
ade_mcfade e2
10 14.8k 216 England
15 Sep 2010 3:08PM
Just noticed a comment on one of the group photos implying that putting "good" shots into the group wasn't the point of the group.

Just to clarify - when we started this, the idea was to put shots that you are proud of up here, good shots, shots you'd show your mates, shots that got awards.

So get your best shots up here, or at least ones you'd spend good money printing.

If you've got ones you know are poor, put those in the Critique Gallery.
keith selmes 11 7.1k 1 United Kingdom
15 Sep 2010 8:56PM

Quote:wondering why others have stopped uploading/commenting in the group?
I had a few days clear when it started.
Been a bit busy since.
ketch e2
7 770 50 Turks And Caicos Islands
16 Sep 2010 8:58AM
Twas my comment about the uploading good images and I think I now understand the rationale. However I think it would help if the group was free'd up rather than constrained certainly this would help it activating membership and its recruitment.

I was delighted to see that the need to try and follow a particular bullet format (despite the wonderful icons we can use) has largely been overtaken. The group also no longer restrains in terms of length of critique. There also now appears to be a number of group members who are happy to heap praise on good images. So things have evolved some distance from the original concept, I think.

Trouble is that for me I do think the group's general comments have become far too sensitive - hell I have even counted about five 'nice light' type comments in the last week, that's not really what the group should be about.

I even had a comment removed because it was, shall we say too insensitive, this was no doubt the correct thing to do but it does also highlight that the group is not perhaps as robust as it could/should be - and its claim that this is 'not the group for the feint hearted' is perhaps a little overstated.

Its a difficult one - that I think highlights a more general problem with groups - so I am going to start another thread ...

Cheers
ade_mcfade e2
10 14.8k 216 England
16 Sep 2010 9:58AM
The whole point of the bullet point approach was to be objective - quick comments, to the point, focussed on the image, not the photographer. The longer, more speculative comments can wend their way to becomming personal attacks on the photographer, even if not intentioned to be, they can sound patronising and arogant, so the bullet point approach was an idea to avoid that. Oddly enough though, I wrote a couple of such "partonising" ones on Ketch's shots (to illustrate a point), but he seemed to like it ??? Wink

The group has evolved to a completely different feel than at the start - things find their natural equilibrium depending who's on the group. A few people who were more cutting have left, which has an impact - it's not a bad thing, it's just a different thing. I don't feel I have to hold back on anyone's shots - so that's not changed for me. It shouldn't have changed for anyone else - people just have different styles.

I still would like to see people putting their best work up though - or at least work that they are happy with. the thing is, with work you know to be "poor", you're loading the group with more work - we'll have more to say, more to comment, more to nit-pick.

If you put up shots you were happy with, the group will hopefully have little to say - but what they do say will be an eye-opener.

I watched Ramsay's Best Restaurant last night, he said the only thing he wants to hear from the front of house staff is the bad news, because that makes him constantly improve. If someone like him, at the top of their game, producing some of the best food in the world, is putting it out there and taking in feedback, that's what I'd say we need to do with this group.

So please, don't put shots you're not happy with up here - use the CG for that.

Lastly, harsh comments on a shot you like are far harder to stomach than on a shot you don't care about, so it's a bit more "manly" to put good shots up Wink
ketch e2
7 770 50 Turks And Caicos Islands
16 Sep 2010 10:26AM

Quote:I wrote a couple of such "partonising" ones on Ketch's shots (to illustrate a point), but he seemed to like it ???
That was fantastic and exactly what I had really expected from the group to be honest - Ade also reacted in a similar way when I left 'tit for tat' and 'tounge in cheek' withering comments on one or two of his efforts. Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy banter just so long as it doesn't get personal. Smile

I do agree with Ade that if you put up what you feel are near perfect images and then sit back and watch them being pulled apart - that can be quite a heroic and difficult thing to do (I don't think I have anything that falls into the near perfect category - phew!).

The point here though is that I don't think I have a single image that I personally would not find fault with - so I would be excluded from uploading if I followed Ade's call to:


Quote:So please, don't put shots you're not happy with up here - use the CG for that
but I do know what he is getting at.

But the 'tell it like it is' group also really does need to avoid the possibility of 'the emperors clothes' syndrome - and it does this by sometimes reviewing, honestly, the less good and even the blatantly poor. These second division images keep the group honed and alert - so I think whilst they may create a little more work they do have an impoprtant part to play in the groups funcioning.

Also poor shots are easier to critique generally - so might they also attract less confident reviewers and increase group numbers??


Cheers
ade_mcfade e2
10 14.8k 216 England
16 Sep 2010 10:31AM

Quote:Also poor shots are easier to critique generally - so might they also attract less confident reviewers and increase group numbers??


I actually think the exact opposite is true - well I know it is in a few cases.

So please please please use this as a testing ground for "your" best work - if you are not experieced and know your work has flaws, that's not an issue at all, just pick what you like best from your shots - we're all at different levels but can still all fully join in.

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