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The click debate - hopefully the final one!

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Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318430 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
22 Jun 2005 - 3:50 AM

We're about to make changes to the gallery to reduce problems that we've been having for the last year or so covered in many click threads in the past. This thread is for you to have your say as to the direction of the gallery. Please offer suggestions but lets not get into a heated debate or name people who are, in your opinion, abusing the system.

Issues
Some photos get huge numbers of clicks from friends/click buddies etc
Some RC photos do not deserve the status
Some photos are being missed
Some subjects are underrated

We are considered the following course of action

Continue the click/heart option, but it no longer counts towards the RC. We would introduce an RC click which would be limited to 5 per person per day. The thinking behind this is we want to make the RC more valuable. Currently members enjoy clicking but some poor pictures do get unbalanced high scores. As the click and heart system is what many enjoy we don't want to restricting it to five which would take away much pleasure...but introducing the RC limited to 5 click per day vote would make the RC more realistic and valuable. The heart ratings would continue as a guide to how many like the photo and the new RC would be something to feel proud of.

We could introduce a -(minus) rating which would take away one click for photos you don't like. This would be good providing that people used it intelligently and not as a way to hit back at someone!

To help overcome photos that are being missed we could introduce a random Gallery Page. Here the page would pick photos from any of the current 200,000+ pics and display 16.

We don't think we can do anything about the subjects - generally flowers, nudes, landscapes and animals will favour over social, sport or documentary photos and colour will get more click than black & white.

We are also considering removing the hearts numbers from the thumbnails in the gallery pages and only showing these when the photo is opened. Some members have suggested that we make the photos anonymous for a limited time, but it's easy to spot many members who have certain styles so we feel this would work in a negative way.

We've been asked for the option to tick to say you want critique. So any photo with this ticked could be viewed in a new gallery and as a visitor you would be sure that you could leave constructive criticism without being attacked after.

That's it so far...any thoughts?

Over to you

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22 Jun 2005 - 3:50 AM

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Declan
Declan  9140 forum posts
22 Jun 2005 - 3:58 AM

The RC ideas are sound, the -ve score thing i can see causing more problems that it could ever solve. I think it would also cause people to not put up their pics for fear of getting a -ve score. Of course people could also use it to be nasty, should they so choose.

I don;t see the problem with the subjects, surely the clicks is representative with what people looking at the galleries feel.

wotashot
wotashot  102249 forum posts
22 Jun 2005 - 3:59 AM

The RC click limited to 5 per day sounds like a good solution to people who click their friends, it would however cut down the overall number of RC's on the site and as someone who has never been close to 30 click's I would have to say goodbye to the idea of ever getting one (and I'm sure there are others here in the same position).

If the random gallery was the first page you saw when you clicked to view the readers gallery and then you had the choice to view the current gallery (like the showcase in e2) then I think it would work,

Jamie

Ewan
Ewan  11381 forum posts Scotland
22 Jun 2005 - 3:59 AM

Sounds a good system. Have you considered a rating system such as that used at Shutterpoint? Or would that be too over-complicated for what you want?

ljesmith
ljesmith  101092 forum posts United Kingdom
22 Jun 2005 - 4:00 AM

Sounds good, I don't think that there should be a negative click possibility as I feel that the site should be about the positive and not the negative (pun intended).

Personally I would reduce the RC vote to one per person per day.

wotashot
wotashot  102249 forum posts
22 Jun 2005 - 4:02 AM


Quote: I don;t see the problem with the subjects, surely the clicks is representative with what people looking at the galleries feel.

Yes but there are more fans of flowers, landscapes and animals than there are of sport, social and documantary on this site,

Jamie

mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
22 Jun 2005 - 4:03 AM

I agree with the idea of hiding the hearts on the thumbnails. I have also supported the 'tick for critique' option when it has been raised in some of the many threads on this subject.

I don't have a serious problem with the separate votes for RC, although I have to say that I don't believe any system is going to be perfect, so I'm unconvinced of the need for a change to the way it works at present. There will always be abberations, but surely as long as these are a small minority there's no reason to use them to drive change. Also I'm sure I'm not the only member who feels that to get an RC under the present system is no mean feat, so revising the system in the way you suggest is only likely to make it less likely to happen! Also, whether it's a separate vote or not, if people are inclined to vote for their friends photos regardless of quality, they'll still do so under the new system, and it could even concentrate that effect.

I don't agree with the -ve voting idea. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but having seen some of the attitudes on display in the forum from time to time over the past year, I think the misuse of -ve votes is a foregone conclusion. Whether it matters in the bigger scale of things is open to debate of course.

Doug

Sabreur
Sabreur  9767 forum posts England
22 Jun 2005 - 4:03 AM

A few thoughts -

i. WOuld the -1 rating require you to say why you don't like the photo? This might help cut down on the potential for abuse. Although it could keep the mods busy if everyone starts reporting abuse.

ii. Not sure how useful the random photos page would be, as 16 from 200,000 still gives a good chance that photos will be overlooked. Having said that, it would stop pictures from disappearing for ever after the first couple of days.

iii. On the 5 RC clicks restriction, are there any statistics around how many clicks people are making?

ardbeg77
ardbeg77  101214 forum posts Sao Tome and Principe6 Constructive Critique Points
22 Jun 2005 - 4:04 AM

Pete - this thread will get swamped, so in the interests of your sanity I'll keep it brief:

RC click - initial thought is it sounds an OK idea, would presumably have to alter the level needed to achieve it? Also - this wouldn't stop people giving all 5 of their RC clicks to the same people every day - would it just be transferring the problem?

Minus rating - avoid like the plague.

Random Page - good idea - but it would still rely on people going to it. How about restricting it to the last months uploads, rather than the whole gallery?

Removal of Hearts from thumbnails - defnitely think this is a good idea.

Tick for critique - I know it's not how everyone feels, but I still believe that by uploading you are opening yourself to critique, and the tick box would take something away fomr the site. The trick is to get the critique to be given constructively (which to be fair is what most people who give critique do).
My 2p.

Steve

SuziBlue
SuziBlue  1116195 forum posts Scotland10 Constructive Critique Points
22 Jun 2005 - 4:07 AM

Yep the minus rating has huge potential for abuse .. I dread to think what might happen.

However the RC click sounds like a very good idea. I like that. Five sounds very generous .. I'd be happy with less but will go with the flow.

I wonder if it's worth hiding the click/hearts altogether except to the owner of the picture. So that you could click but never know how many clicks the picture has had .. you'd just have a note to say you'd clicked it so you at least knew where you'd been! Or is this a load of tosh?

Maybe the random page could throw up 16 pics from one category - like sport / landscapes / etc. So they'd get more exposure.

Excellent stuff Pete. Smile

simont
simont  102248 forum posts England4 Constructive Critique Points
22 Jun 2005 - 4:07 AM

Not sure how the RC click will work.

You don't use any for fear of something better coming along later.

What would also be good is that if Will can move the "click for bigger Picture" and "click if you like it". I've once or twice got it wrong and you can't withdraw the click

Simon

digicammad
digicammad  1121988 forum posts United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
22 Jun 2005 - 4:09 AM

I agree with Declan that the -ve clicks could too easily be used in a destructive way and would be counter productive. All the other ideas seem fine at first read.

With regard to the tick box to indicate willingness to receive critique, I would like to see the default setting for this configurable in your profile; all my photos are open for critique and it would save ticking every time I upload. Having said that, perhaps you could consider doing the same with the notification tick setting.

Removing the hearts from the thumbnail is also a good idea, I'm sure clicks are self generating to an extent in that if it has a lot already more people will open the thumb.

I'm not sure of the merits of having a random gallery. In effect everybody sees a random selection, governed by the time at which they view the gallery. Using the random gallery shots will still be missed and the time to view this gallery will reduce the time available to view the normal gallery so we may just see a migration effect.

As far as categories are concerned I wouldn't really be bothered if you scrapped them altogether. I never view by category, eg although I can't take a portrait to save my life I still enjoy seeing well executed examples.

The separate clicks for an RC is an excellent idea. At the moment there is too much of a grey area over the purpose of a click. I (usually) only click those shots I would be happy to see getting an RC but there is a temptation to click anything on which you have indicated a liking for one or more aspects of the shot.

I've no doubt there will be problems along the way but this looks like several steps in the right direction, bring it on.

Ian

answersonapostcard
answersonapostcard Site Moderator 1012518 forum postsanswersonapostcard vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
22 Jun 2005 - 4:10 AM

Briefly for me too.

Yes to the 5 RC clicks. And continue the rest as is.
Minus rating would be OK so long as you had to state a reason otherwise a big no no.
Random gallery page - corking idea!
Removal of hearts on home page, also support.
Critique button - I'd support an opt out rather than specifically tick a button to ask for it, as far as I'm concerned thats why you upload to the gallery, for critique, if you dont want it then I'd rather see 'no critique required'.

RipleyExile
22 Jun 2005 - 4:14 AM

Answersonapostcard, I assume that's a spelling mistake in your last sentence.

answersonapostcard
answersonapostcard Site Moderator 1012518 forum postsanswersonapostcard vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
22 Jun 2005 - 4:15 AM

blushing yes, thank you for pointing that out

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