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I'll post one tomorrow just for you Mr Keith.
I actually find it quite hard to find people who will sit for me to allow me to practice.
I wont dip my toe in recognition debate. I post much less nowadays because I know certain types of photo I seem to be taking more and more of just get completely ignored. I find myself having to decide whether or not a photo is 'an EPz' photo or not.
I'll try some different ones over the next week and see what happens!
Quote: So....have people stopped trying to improve photography and now rely on turning the bland into a silk purse?
I can understand why sometimes - its been raining all week, no new photos and a desire to upload something new can get the best of us trying to make bland look good. As long as folk realise that and except it for what it is, I see no harm. Infact, its good practice because like it or not PS is an essential tool for all photographers 
Maybe it's just the age we live in. We are so used to seeing manipulated electronic media everywhere that we probably can't help but use different criteria when judgeing images than we would have done years ago.
I must admit to passing by most portrait images, because they just don't hold any appeal, same as images of motorbikes, theres no emotional response, (they may be technically brilliant, and unmanipulated, makes no difference).
But I always enjoy seeing images by Sugarbird, because for me, her images do provoke that emotional response, and even from the thumbnail they seem to standout.
For me it's all about the image, don't care how it got there. So if I like it and it's totally unmanipulated and completely down to the skill of the photographer at point of capture, bravo. If it's down to someones skill with software, bravo.
I'm so glad this thread is going, I've just seen it. To my mind there is not much point in learning all the tricks of photoshop until you have learnt how to take good straight pictures.
I know that my opinions are strong and sometimes seem to wind people up, but to me photography is all about the point where you press the shutter.
All PShopped portraiture, annaliese...I don't have a problem with it per se, but it annoys me when it gets raved about at the expense of very very good camera work. My dislike of outfits like Venture is well known to many on EPZ...they fall under the same bracket. Take an average photograph and paint it beyond photography until it reaches a point where it could have simply been painted in the first place.
I commented on an'image a couple of weeks ago, it was totally created in the computer, but the replies I got (not just from the author) said that because they used a 'virtual' studio which you have to set the light angles etc then it was a valid pic!..I disagreed (& gave it a 'virtual'(i.e. not real) click) but it does not affect how I view my own photography, so each to their own!
The rise of digital photography has made what it took a few skilled/experienced darkroom workers to achieve, more accessable & easier for many to replicate, the skill in my view is still using suitable techniques to produce the final image, but they should be placed in the correct category (e.g. Portraits or Digitally manipulated).
at the end of the day a click can mean different things to different people, if they are important to some then so be it, personally ideas, discussions & criticism will help in the persuit of photography far more IMHO.
I watch out for some of the outstanding, innovative & inspiring photographs which are amongst the galleries, in all sections. Much of my work, as with many others, would be described as mediocre at best (with hopefully the occasional good shot) but I still post in the hope of comments/suggestions & improvement ideas.
totally agree that learning to get it right in the camera will always give a better 'foundation' for any other 'post-processing'.
Just my 2p
Joe B
You can't uninvent the imaging software, and it takes just as much skill to use it really well as does being a great point of capture photographer, don't think either way is less valid. Times have changed, the very fact that this is an online site where everything is viewed on VDU's (no doubt in different states of calibration) is testiment to that.
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