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The Figures Don't Add Up

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brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110152 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
26 Nov 2012 - 4:43 PM

I keep reading about how the Ageing Population is consuming an unfair amount of the budget and how we need to have our benefits curtailed, yet I've just finished reading our local county (Dorset) breakdown of where the money goes and it seems to me someone somewhere is lying

Dorset has an aging population (between 25 and 30% over 60) yet I see that:

Schools and Other Childrens services consume something around 65% of the expenditure and
Social services for the Elderly around 25%
Roads around 10% and the rest is minor components

So, that's around 65% being spent on non-taxpayers and 25% on those of us who have, in the main, contributed to the wealth of the country through our output and taxes and, for many of us, who still contribute to the Government's income via our taxes

It doesn't add up to the messages comng in from all the "Ageist" politicians and commentators

Let the Grey Revolution begin!

Remember the chant:

What do we want - we can't remember
When do we want it - we don't know
Why are we here -we haven't a clue

etc Grin

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26 Nov 2012 - 4:43 PM

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adrian_w
adrian_w e2 Member 63272 forum postsadrian_w vcard Scotland4 Constructive Critique Points
26 Nov 2012 - 5:19 PM

Does the cost of Police come under the schools/other children services? Presumably Social Services are also included in that.

thewilliam
26 Nov 2012 - 8:19 PM

When National Insurance was introduced, it was an insurance premium that was earmarked for the provision of social benefits for the retired and needy. Now the government collects twice as much NI as income tax, it's become just another tax to be squandered. The self-employed pay 8.5% of their business profits as well as the weekly sum and yet cannot claim dole or sick pay. When we reach retirement age, they only let us off the weekly payment: the 8.5% still has to be paid.

One departed friend found that he was entitled to part of a German pension because he's spent time in a concentration camp. His one-fifth of a German pension gave him more than his four-fifths of a UK pension.

Successive governments have made a habit of rewarding the unworthy while dumping on those who have served the country. When an illegal immigrant has served a prison sentence, he must be allowed to stay in the UK lest his human rights be violated. But until recently, retired Ghurka soldiers were not allowed to remaine here, even though many people would consider that they'd earned that right through their military service.

Older people have been seen as a soft target but this could soon change. Quantitive Easing has all but destroyed annuity rates so the older folk are effectively paying for it. The government can only get away with so much and there will be a backlash, as history has shown.

cats_123
cats_123 e2 Member 103995 forum postscats_123 vcard Northern Ireland24 Constructive Critique Points
26 Nov 2012 - 8:35 PM


Quote: You pay National Insurance contributions to build up your entitlement to certain state benefits, including the State Pension.


Quote: National Insurance contributions count towards the benefits in the table.
Benefit Class 1: employees Class 2: self-employed Class 3: voluntary contributions
Basic State Pension Yes Yes Yes
Additional State Pension Yes No No
Contribution-based Jobseeker’s Allowance Yes No No
Contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance Yes Yes No
Maternity Allowance Yes Yes No
Bereavement benefits Yes Yes Yes

Class 4 contributions paid by self-employed people with a profit over £7,605 don’t count towards state benefits.

quotes from gov.uk...

So, I don't think it has anything to do with local expenditure as pensions are paid from a central budget...which comes under pressure due to the ageing population

Last Modified By cats_123 at 26 Nov 2012 - 8:37 PM
CDSINUK
CDSINUK  2219 forum posts England
26 Nov 2012 - 10:40 PM

after the way ive been treated lately i'd rather work for Al-queda than put another tax pound into this government, you work all your life then get thrown on the scap heap when you cant, at least some people are getting benefits, i apparently dont fit into any of their little tick boxes, it all goes on people turning up on our shores, alcoholics, drug addiction, breast implants and polititions exspenses Smile no wonder theres nothing left for the people that paid it in in the first place, but its ok, all us oldies will be dead soon eh!

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110152 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
26 Nov 2012 - 10:55 PM


Quote: all us oldies will be dead soon eh

I'm going to live to 135 (my company stats in 1995 showed that one person could, ststistically do it), just to stuff the company pension scheme, outlive the current crop of Politicians and really, really annoy my kids Tongue

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314813 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 1:46 AM


Quote: I keep reading about how the Ageing Population is consuming an unfair amount of the budget and how we need to have our benefits curtailed

The cost jump up once you require a care home, I know residential care cost around £900 a week, nursing care cost even more.


Quote: Social services for the Elderly around 25%

That would be day centres, meals on wheels, that sort of thing.

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 27 Nov 2012 - 1:51 AM
oldblokeh
oldblokeh  3762 forum posts United Kingdom
27 Nov 2012 - 9:08 AM

I believe that George Osborne is about to announce plans to replace the state pension with a Deathseeker's Allowance.

User_Removed
27 Nov 2012 - 9:08 AM

The government said it had given us pensioner's the biggest rise in history last year, what a CON that was, the fact is they took more off us than any other government.
they gave us five pounds fifty five pence rise in our pension, but took two pound seventy two pence off our tax credits, so we only got two pounds eighty three pence in real terms, and they stopped our ten pounds christmas bonus, took fifty pounds off our winter fuel allowance, and made working pensioner's pay the granny tax.
What this government forgets is that us pensioners are the biggest group of voters, and we have the power to put them in or out of government.

collywobles
27 Nov 2012 - 9:22 AM

Moan moan moan moan moan moan feckin moan ! - the UK must be the most complaining 'about nothing' nation on this planet.

Its not perfect but no one is really poor here, we have a welfare system second to none, free medical treatment. low unemployment, and if you are unemployed the government gives you money. Life isnt all good but its better here than in most other places.


Quote: What this government forgets is that us pensioners are the biggest group of voters, and we have the power to put them in or out of government

No its not because only 50% of you go out and vote........

User_Removed
27 Nov 2012 - 10:06 AM


Quote: Moan moan moan moan moan moan feckin moan ! - the UK must be the most complaining 'about nothing' nation on this planet.

Its not perfect but no one is really poor here, we have a welfare system second to none, free medical treatment. low unemployment, and if you are unemployed the government gives you money. Life isnt all good but its better here than in most other places.

What this government forgets is that us pensioners are the biggest group of voters, and we have the power to put them in or out of government

No its not because only 50% of you go out and vote........

Yes its moan moan moan, you sound like a young one who has had it easy most of your life, wait till they start ripping you off, and see if you moan.

puertouk
puertouk  21052 forum posts United Kingdom17 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 10:47 AM

Living out here in Tenerife, which comes under Spain, the welfare system out here would certainly be an eye opener for the Brits back home. 6 months unemployment, then your money stops! Your health cover stops! You have to go cap in hand to the authorities to get back on the health system and prove to them you have no means of support. There´s no housing benefits as far as I´m aware, so you will either have to return to your parents place, if they are alive or live with a friend or relative, if they´ll have you! 26% unemployment here in the Canaries, with over 25% under the age of 25.

You do not get after-care in the health system here as you do in the UK. You get your operation and that´s it. You´re on your own after that. You are unable to come to live in the Canaries unless you have a job to come to or you can prove to the authorities you have the finances to not be a burden on the state. Why the UK does not bring that in, I do not know. We allow the scum of the Earth to come and live in the UK, who go straight into crime, especially the Eastern Block people. They have organised gangs who run prostitution, drugs, human trafficking, robbery and whatever else they can do to get money.

Now in the Canaries, the Government here have passed a law, allowing non-EU people to move to the Island and get the paperwork they need to live here, if they are purchasing property over €160,000. This is being aimed at Russians and the Chinese, who are both renowned for their gangs. Black money flooding into the Islands with very unsavory people being allowed in. One of the political parties is up in arms over what is happening, as they know the type of people who will be coming into the Islands.

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73802 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 10:59 AM

Interesting you have no Police, or emergency services in Dorset ! (or do they do it for free)


Quote: Schools and Other Childrens services consume something around 65% of the expenditure

Well you need a well educated young generation to pay for all our pensions ,National Insurance was never going to cover an aging population. Remember when it was set up 2 generations of young men had been decimated in 2 world wars - which obviously has an effect on average age - add into this increasing life expectancy (surely a good thing). Whichever government was in power hard decisions would have been made, and they will continue to be made.

mikehit
mikehit  46105 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 11:13 AM

Police and emergency services count as 'Social services for the elderly in Devon': the police are either arresting the Torquay chapter of Hells Grannies or returning amnesiac pensioners to their home while the emergency services are rescuing their cats from the trees.
Loife be excoiting in Devrn.

cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
27 Nov 2012 - 11:15 AM


Quote: Yes its moan moan moan, you sound like a young one who has had it easy most of your life, wait till they start ripping you off, and see if you moan.

Its the current generation of pensioners (or those just about to become one) who have really had it easy. Full employment for most of their lives, cheap housing, free university education, early retirement for lots of them (at the expense of crippling company pension schemes). Now in retirement with lots of assets to keep them comfortable they expect the struggling younger generation to support them to the extent that they don't have to dig into their own savings.

You don't pay taxes to provide for your old age you pay them to support those already there, but that model requires more payers than receivers, and us baby boomers (yes I am one myself, and I know how bloody lucky I've been) are breaking the model so those of us who can afford to do so should lend a hand and stop demanding the unjustifiable.

Last Modified By cambirder at 27 Nov 2012 - 11:16 AM

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