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The National Mood

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Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139463 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
6 Oct 2012 - 10:20 AM

Maybe economic ills are due to governments thinking they own our money?

Compounded by our greed to own goods and property and to use services for which we don't have the money?

Just a thought. Smile

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6 Oct 2012 - 10:20 AM

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brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110294 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
6 Oct 2012 - 10:43 AM

CB - I couldn't agree more, particularly with your second sentence.

It annoys the heck out of me that, as someone who didn't believe that the high price of housing meant that I was rich and could take equity out, that low interest and free access to credit meant I could max out on the cards etc but lived within my means I'm suffering along with the spendthrift majority who believed the fairy-story economics of the Blair and Brown rule and "blew the bank"

(Even more so now there is all this garbage about extra taxes for the "Wealthy Pensioners" who saved for their retirement - to the beenfit of the scroungers and layabouts who lived up to and above their incomes with no thought to the future - don't I sound like a grumpy old right wing toff - tough! Tongue )

thewilliam
6 Oct 2012 - 10:58 AM

One effect of "quantitative easing" has been to increase the market price of the gilts, which has seriously depressed the yield of annuities.

Several friends breathed a sigh of relief that their retirement fund hadn't gone the way of Equitable Life only to find that their pension doesn't buy very much. She-who-must-be-obeyed gets an old age pension that exactly covers our Council Tax.

The government seems to be doing its very best to rid the country of "wealthy pensioners".

puertouk
puertouk  21073 forum posts United Kingdom17 Constructive Critique Points
6 Oct 2012 - 11:21 AM

Just take a close look at all the cutbacks Britain is suffering. Some of them needed, most not. Let the NHS be run by professional people, not managers. Put it back into the hands of matrons etc. Stop foreigners coming into the UK to use the NHS for free! Why is the NHS paying more for their drugs than many other EU countries? Here in Spain, drugs and prescriptions are a fraction of the price of the UK.

Banks should be monitored more closely and the so-called fat cats who run them should not be getting bonuses. They get paid large salaries for doing their job. Get people back to work. Anyone on the dole over 6 months, should be made to do voluntary work to help councils.

Single mothers, should also be made to go to work. Creches to be set up free of charge while the mother goes to work. Far cheaper doing that than paying them to sit at home, while the authorities pay their rent, community tax and whatever else they can screw out of them. For some single women, having a child is a way out of having to work for a living and costing the tax payer millions of pounds a year.

Tighten up on foreigners coming into the UK. Again, employers are exploiting this cheap labour market by employing foreign workers. Here in Tenerife, they are very strict on foreigners coming to live here. With unemployment running at 25%, finding work here is virtually impossible, unless you are willing to go on a 10 hour contract, which many employers give you, as they have to pay the employees National Health. A 40 hour contract would cost an employer over €260 a month, so they give you only a 10 hour contract. This contract is worthless and gives you no rights, but it will get you on the health system. In most cases, you might be working 16 hours for €50. This is what Conservative governments do. Cut jobs and people work for poor pay and working conditions. Look at the unemployment figures when the conservatives are in power. They are NOT a party for the working class.

mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
6 Oct 2012 - 11:37 AM


Quote: They are NOT a party for the working class.

Laughably simplistic, given that the Conservative party has for a long time enjoyed support from across the social spectrum. Mind you, it's equally laughable to describe Labour as a party for the working class these days. I think even Labour began to realise that the "Tory Toffs" caricature of the Conservatives was risible after the result of the Crewe and Nantwich by-election in 2008.


Quote: Look at the unemployment figures when the conservatives are in power.

Indeed. One of the most famous advertising slogans from the election campaign which brought Margaret Thatcher's Conservatives into government in 1979 was "Labour isn't working" over an image of a long, snaking unemployment line.

When "New Labour" took office in 1997, the new Chancellor announced that he would stick with the spending plans of his predecessor (who I think was Kenneth Clarke - correct me if I'm wrong). Why? Because the economy was in pretty good shape at the time, and also the incoming government wanted reassure business leaders (who hadn't experienced Labour government for a considerable time) that the economy was in safe hands.

If you want to believe that all the woes of the working man can be laid at the door of Conservative politicians, go right ahead. The reality is a little different, though.

Oh and a further point to add is that today's Conservatives under David Cameron are for the most part a very different proposition from those under Margaret Thatcher. Today there's little practical difference between the two main parties once you strip away the party propaganda and the antiquated "class struggle" rhetoric of some of the old guard.

Last Modified By mdpontin at 6 Oct 2012 - 11:43 AM
Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139463 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
6 Oct 2012 - 11:38 AM

i didn't think we had a working class these days............ just a middle class (upper and lower tier) and an underclass.

mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
6 Oct 2012 - 11:41 AM

We have a "squeezed middle", CB. Well, I do at least. I really must lose weight.... Tongue

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102290 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
6 Oct 2012 - 2:42 PM


Quote: So you're completely impartial then . . ?

At least as impartial as you, I hope...

It is all very "respectable" and easy (lazy?) to take the "centre-ground" position and accept what the mainstream media propaganda feeds us but that doesn't mean it's true.
I'm not always right, though I think usually am, but the evidence is overwhelmingly clear that the failure of "free-market" capitalism has created the lousy "national mood" we now have.
The massive outpouring of pride and joy over the successful Olympics was fantastic but we need to continue the belief in the human spirit exhibited there to transcend greed and selfishness and to share in everyone's success - not just to grab everything at the expense of others.

Here endeth the lesson, brethren. Grin

collywobles
6 Oct 2012 - 5:28 PM


Quote: Oh and a further point to add is that today's Conservatives under David Cameron are for the most part a very different proposition from those under Margaret Thatcher. Today there's little practical difference between the two main parties once you strip away the party propaganda and the antiquated "class struggle" rhetoric of some of the old guard.

I think you are close to the truth here. I have my views but I really do not know how I will vote next time. In my mind I am a Tory in my heart I am a socialist and I have voted for all the main parties in my time.

I am tired of Labour wasting my money, and tired of the Tories clouting the genuine needy and not collecting tax from people who do their best to avoid paying it but could afford it, and as for the Liberals they are so week that its a wasted vote.

yours Dissilutioned from Essex.............

(sorry Garth (8o) Greens are so far off, it is also a wasted vote , and I'm not sure about their policies either. )

monstersnowman


Quote: or, to put it another way, played a large part in causing such, after wasting much of our economic strength by their policies (as seems par for course for successive Labour Governments over the yearsI think the only reason why successive "Labour" governments have failed over the years is because they have actually carried out Tory policies. It's no good blaming Trade Unions for so much our our economic decline - that's largely media (nearly all Tory biased) propaganda. Both management and unions have been partly to blame for many of our economic ills but since Thatcher emasculated the unions, have things improved? I think the answer is a resounding no.
New "Labour" didn't cause the present economic problems: they just exacerbated them.

Our economic ills, indeed the world's economic ills, have become continually worse ever since Thatcher and Reagan let the rabid Neo-con dogs of "free market" fraud off the leash. These loonies, with their callous policies and fraudulent propaganda, have caused or facilitated more murder and mayhem across the planet than can ever be forgivable.

Tories are on a ideological crusade trying to finish Margaret Thatcher's using monetary policies that are not relevant to today's circumstances. These monetary polices were never needed for any time - past, present or future. These "policies" were based entirely on the dogma and greed of the ruling rich elites - mainly US driven - and designed to make the rich even richer without restraint from government.

Sorry to sound so glum but I find it difficult to find any humour on this subject. Wink

I don't think I can remember reading such a politically blinkered & biased post for some I'm lol ...

Where does one start ...

Last Modified By monstersnowman at 6 Oct 2012 - 5:53 PM
brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110294 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
6 Oct 2012 - 6:43 PM


Quote: Where does one start

read the economic hostory of this country since 1945 maybe? Wink

thewilliam
6 Oct 2012 - 7:23 PM

I shall never forget a "Sterling crisis" in the 1960s. Harold Wilson in No 10, I was in Germany and went into a bank to change some Sterling into DMarks. They told me that they wouldn't accept Pounds at ANY exchange rate.

At least that doesn't happen now.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110294 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
6 Oct 2012 - 7:27 PM


Quote: We are not now living through the first crisis of globalisation. On the contrary, what Gordon Brown has actually documented is the first crisis of his own deeply flawed British model of political economy, which socialised risks and privatised profits. The paper explores how Gordon Brown’s attempts to modernize the politics and political economy of the United Kingdom, using the City of London’s liberalized markets as a blueprint, has left the United Kingdom facing an age of austerity that was politically self-inflicted rather than financially imposed by external global market forces.

From this reference

Its a French Uni paper so I have no idea of their political bias, but it makes interesting readin - I think

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102290 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
6 Oct 2012 - 8:21 PM


Quote: (sorry Garth (8o) Greens are so far off, it is also a wasted vote , and I'm not sure about their policies either. )

Hi, Colin: Well, in my case (and in many cases) a vote for the other parties is wasted!
Anyway, I do understand your logic as the Greens are a much smaller party than any of the "big three" but I think for those like myself who believe in the Greens, it's a boost to our confidence if we can get some more MP's into parliament.
I also think more votes for the Greens sends out a signal to the media and the rest of the world that one day we will prevail...Wink

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102290 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
6 Oct 2012 - 8:32 PM


Quote: I don't think I can remember reading such a politically blinkered & biased post for some I'm lol ...


I'm politically blinkered and biased? Any fool can say that - and they may be right or wrong - but an intelligent person would be able to demonstrate and explain why.

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