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The Welsh Conspiracy!!

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michaeldt
michaeldt  101201 forum posts
16 Jan 2006 - 3:42 AM

There's a conspiracy to rid Britain of the Welsh! Be warned!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/4605768.stm

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16 Jan 2006 - 3:42 AM

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spaceman
spaceman  105166 forum posts Wales3 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2006 - 7:06 AM

If it is a conspiracy it's a pretty rubbish one - hardly anyone in Wales speaks Welsh.
Although I've a feeling someone will produce some statistics that say otherwise.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2006 - 7:10 AM

Some statistics.

It's more a PC thing though, isn't it?

digicammad
digicammad  1121988 forum posts United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2006 - 7:14 AM

Far from it CB. Welsh is still taught as a first language in many Welsh schools, particularly in North Wales. Areas like the coasts, where there have been an influx of English, tend to have a lower proportion of Welsh speakers, but get a few miles inland and that changes. My wife is from North Wales and didn't speak English until she was taught it at school.

There are a lot of people for whom it is convenient to claim it is PC, but that's definitely just politics. :0)

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2006 - 7:17 AM

I am aware of the situation in N. Wales, having been on holiday there a few times!

But elsewhere in Wales it might as well be Double Dutch! Wink

digicammad
digicammad  1121988 forum posts United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2006 - 7:19 AM

True, in South Wales far fewer of them speak Welsh. 23% of the total population speaking it and another 5% knowing some is still pretty high considering the efforts to kill it over the centuries. ;o)

agoreira
agoreira  106001 forum posts Wales
16 Jan 2006 - 7:42 AM

"But elsewhere in Wales it might as well be Double Dutch! Wink"

Certainly would be here! It's never heard here. I know my Spanish teacher thinks it not very fair, the Welsh language tutors get a higher rate to teach Welsh than any other language tutors! Wink Nor sure if it's still true, but several years ago, owing the low viewing figures, C4C used to be the most expensive TV in the world. And the two most popular programmes were Brookside, and Pobol y Cwm with subtitles! Wink

franken
franken e2 Member 113096 forum postsfranken vcard Wales4 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2006 - 7:43 AM

I was born and still live in South Wales. Born in Cardiff but now live in Barry. I can read Welsh place names and a little Welsh. If somebody spoke to me in Welsh I wouldn't have a clue! I'm not proud of the fact but I feel it's not important to me. I was taught Welsh in school but it wasn't as a first language. I've forgoten most of it now. My children were taught Welsh also but they hated it. I've toyed with the idea of learning it but I would need to travel to at least mid wales in order to use it.

Ken

dwjones
dwjones  10232 forum posts United Kingdom
16 Jan 2006 - 7:45 AM

I'm also from North Wales and similar to Digicammad's wife learnt english as my second language.
I tend to find that if englsh people who have moved to a strong Welsh speaking area they do try to learn to speak (hear!!) Welsh, But as they are taught 'proper' Welsh it's difficult to understand them as most Welsh speakers have localisms (spelling?).
My wife and I both speak welsh at home and usually when shopping or out. But if we are out with friends we only speak welsh when we need to pass on 'private' comments.

Did have to laugh at the story michaeldt found though!!

Tandberg
Tandberg  111218 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2006 - 7:49 AM

Went to south wales last year and was happy, it was like being at home in yorkshire. I did not hear any welsh at all and one guy laughed when i asked him how long ago he left yorkshire because of his accent, He laughed and started speaking welsh, he said i get that a lot dont worry mate.

Dave

digicammad
digicammad  1121988 forum posts United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
16 Jan 2006 - 7:52 AM

I think the reason there is less Welsh in South Wales is down to the pressure exerted by English pit owners. The paymaster's inability to spell the Welsh names lead to things like the forming of the name Lloyd (a corruption of the Welsh for grey) and also explains why there are so many Jones' in Wales (easy to spell). In some pits the people were even punished if they were heard speaking Welsh.

North Wales was not effected to the same extent, so the language has survived. I wonder if the slate mines were mainly Welsh owned? Need to check that one.

agoreira
agoreira  106001 forum posts Wales
16 Jan 2006 - 8:43 AM


Quote: North Wales was not effected to the same extent, so the language has survived. I wonder if the slate mines were mainly Welsh owned? Need to check that one.

I think part of it is due to the fact that there were huge influxes of workers, and they tended to be Irish and English. Watched something last week, and it said that the work force for Barry Docks alone, shot up by a huge amount, and they were nearly all English. Probably upset a lot of the fervent Welsh there, to find their grandparents were English. Reminds me of a programme I saw about the Battle of Culloden. They featured a Scotsman, that had always absolutely hated the English, and had emigrated to New Zealand. He returned to celebrate the battle, and when they checked his deatils, it turned out that his ancestors had fought on the side of the English! He must have been gutted! There were several Scottish regiments of the English side.
# Three battalions of Lowland Scots foot soldiers; one battalion and a militia had been largely raised from Clan Campbell Highlanders.
# A professional battalion of Highland Scots from the Clan Munro who had been fighting for the British in France. As well as other various other Scottish clans both Highlanders and Lowlanders

jeff50
jeff50  8162 forum posts
16 Jan 2006 - 8:56 AM

I can't believe all those facts and figures about Scottish history and battles - not after watching real history in action with Mel Gibson!! lol

mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
16 Jan 2006 - 9:09 AM

Well, Culloden wasn't really a Scotland v. England battle in any case. It was the final pitched battle of the 1745 rising, which was the Jacobites (who were trying to restore the Stuart monarchy) and the government/Hanoverians (i.e. supporters of the "official" king, for want of a better word). I believe (though I'd have to check my facts) that the majority of lowland Scotland was on the government side. Most of the Scottish Jacobites were highland chieftains and their clans.

Doug

mad-dogs
mad-dogs  122201 forum posts England
16 Jan 2006 - 9:12 AM


Quote: The paymaster's inability to spell the Welsh names lead to things like the forming of the name Lloyd (a corruption of the Welsh for grey) and also explains why there are so many Jones' in Wales (easy to spell). In some pits the people were even punished if they were heard speaking Welsh.

There is no 'J' in the Welsh alphabet, yet there are a lot of Jones's!

My old school, Ysgol Brynrefail, changed from teaching classes in English to teaching in Welsh in 1965.

Gwynedd is probably the county where Welsh is more commonly spoken in Wales.

and 'Porc Pies Bach' was much better than Pobol y Cwm! :o)

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