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keith selmes
27 Jan 2012 - 2:50 PM


Quote: the instability of standing with your arms out in front of you

My M43 has an eyelevel VF, and a fold out LCD, so you can work either DSLR style or TLR style.
Nowhere near as good as a DSLR VF, but more adaptable.
It is an awkward shape though. Most of them seem to be a neat shape, but without the VF. Or its an awkward and expensive add on.

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27 Jan 2012 - 2:50 PM

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keith selmes
27 Jan 2012 - 2:52 PM


Quote: An EVF may have an advantage in the dark

In my experience it is worse than useless

Pat_Stones
27 Jan 2012 - 3:01 PM


Quote: I disagree. I think you can beat it.

Optical is like looking with your eyes. If electronic was higher quality than your eyes could resolve there would be no point.

Pat_Stones
27 Jan 2012 - 3:03 PM

Put it another way. You stick a 50mm lens on a dSLR, look through the optical viewfinder and you see reality.You might one day get a high res screen that can equal that but it can't beat it.

mikehit
mikehit  56442 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jan 2012 - 4:34 PM

Can you explain in what way an EVF detrimentally affects image taking?

For the vast majority of people the VF is simply a compositional aid (note: I am talking here of all photographers, not just pros or very experienced amateurs). I would venture that even for a majority of keen amateurs they do not use the VF to assess more subtle hues and tones of the scene - that is done before they even put their eye to the VF. And if assessment of the image is that important, then you would probably be using a tripod plus LiveView anyway.
The one exception I can think of is action photography where the refresh rate of the EVF cannot keep up with the motion in front.

I suspect that a lot of the criticism of EVF arises from personal preference rather than actual hindrances.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315335 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jan 2012 - 9:12 PM


Quote: However good the EVF image quality gets it will take extra hardware/software to compensate for the instability of standing with your arms out in front of you as opposed to firmly against the body

Lol Smile

To be honest of found the benefits of viewfinder EVF pretty good, in some cases better than having an optical viewfinder, the only issue I have found is the screen refresh rate when panning quickly but I don`t do this very often and if I did I would have got a GH2.


Quote: An EVF may have an advantage in the dark

In my experience it is worse than useless

An optical viewfinder would be more so.

keith selmes
28 Jan 2012 - 9:21 AM

Speaking from experience in the dark, in descending order of usability

sportfinder
rangefinder
slr
evf

Neither dslr nor evf is easy, they are often comparable, but sometimes the evf will just screw up and give you a black nothing, when your eyes can see quite a lot.

So far as I can make out, the evf is programmed to present what the average consumer is looking for in snapshots, and it doesn't cut it if you are outside the comfort zone.
It always is showing me what the programming thinks I should see, which is often OK, but often enough it isn't.
I expect it is possible to adjust for circumstances, if you want to spend the time on it. Perhaps eventually we will get better controls.

If anyone is working primarily in conditions the equipment is designed for, they might not see the deficiencies.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315335 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2012 - 6:30 PM

Top of your list the sportsfinder, got me thinking of live view and sub aqua, live view has bought huge benefits to under water photography.

Stumbled upon this last night, wedding photography on a Pen budget SmileSmile

http://frontallobbings.blogspot.com/2011/02/wedding-photography-on-pen-budget.ht...

keith selmes
28 Jan 2012 - 7:18 PM

I had thought of putting a Leica framefinder on a M43 camera. Might have uses. especially moonlight.

Also, putting a compact, not necessarily M43, in a waterproof container with a lead to a laptop or tablet for the more sedate sort of just underwater photography.
Like rock pools and so forth. Super live view. Stills and video.

jeanjosephchezmoi

I have had Olympus cameras with the 4/3 mount and while good I found they fall short of the capability available on the APS-C sensor DSLRS. Quite simply the smaller 4/3 sensor is a drawback if you wish to push or crop images. Lens choice was just another serious issue, with little availability and significant cost. And good view finders I consider to be of significant value in my picture taking but others may disagree. I have no axe to grind with those who are happy with 4/3 and wish them well. I have only loyalty to what produces the best for my use and that is either APS-C or FF sensors. You pays your money and you take your chances. I sold my 4/3 mount cameras after a few years incurring a financial loss.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315335 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jan 2012 - 9:57 PM


Quote: I sold my 4/3 mount cameras after a few years incurring a financial loss

? Smile

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139430 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
29 Jan 2012 - 12:23 AM


Quote: I have had Olympus cameras with the 4/3 mount

Things have moved on a bit since the original 4/3 mount cameras came out and my own feeling is that the next generation of CSC cameras will compete very strongly with their DSLR siblings at each price point. At the moment they are a bit on the exepnsive side.

CSCs have taken off big time in Japan but in Europe and the US they have yet to grab as big a slice of the cake. I think a lot of that is to do with price.

As to optical viewfinders on DSLRs, it's high time they brought out ones which can swing up to compete with many of the EVFs now on the market. For a younger generation who have started on compacts with LCD screens, only, the arguments over OVF/EVF will seem like "which is the better type of stage-coach" Lol! Wink

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315335 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
29 Jan 2012 - 1:44 AM


Quote: Things have moved on a bit since the original 4/3 mount cameras came out

Yes they have and it had nothing to do with the sensor size, 4/3 arrived late and it took a fair while for the gaps to close between 4/3 and APS-C sensors, the biggest break through came with the introduction of the E3.

Interesting to see that Canon have opted for a more or less 4/3 size and shaped sensor in there new premium compact instead of using APS-C, why do you think this is Smile

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 29 Jan 2012 - 1:45 AM
keith selmes
29 Jan 2012 - 9:39 AM


Quote: a younger generation who have started on compacts with LCD screens

Those I know have either moved on to DSLR, or stuck with their phone.

It is true, regardless of generation, there are a lot more options now. Anyone wanting to get something better than their little compact or their phone has a lot of choice.
For a while, DSLR and kit lens was the obvious solution, and now it might not be, even if they used to have an slr "back in the day".

I might guess though, someone used to the LCD, and looking through a DSLR VF for the first time, would see it as a revolutionary feature.
EVF not quite so.

But then, I get the same thing with ancient large format. Give someone a good look at the 4 inch by 5 inch bright image on the ground glass, and they straighten up with a big WOW look on their face.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315335 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
29 Jan 2012 - 4:01 PM


Quote: a younger generation who have started on compacts with LCD screens

A lot of us started out on waist level finders displaying upside down, reversed and poorly lit/hard to see subjects or scenes, newbies with live view or evf`s have had it easy Smile

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