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I got my first digital camera two years ago.It was probably the best toy I ever got in my adult life.Of course with a digital camera comes a mac(or pc) and along with that comes PHOTOSHOP.Now I love photoshop don't get me wrong. I usually use it for cropping and occasionally changing saturation levels. When you get into digitally manipulating images can that be called true photography. What would Ansel Adams say about this? Get back at me with your view on this.
" true photography" how can this be defined?
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What would Fox or Cameron say about Adams?
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Digital manipulation or Darkroom manipulation?
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Photoshop saturation or Dodging/burning & different contrast papers?
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Everyone has to define their own 'Line' between image/graphic creation & photography.
Is 'true photography only using Traditional Film/Paper/chemicals? I believe the line has been blurred (feathered?) with the advent of quality digital.
Digital certainly makes the process of special FX (such as solarization/toning etc.) a lot simpler & less messy. In my time (boy does that make me sound old!!) I have worked in/had darkrooms and tried many techniques,
In my case, all my photos required some 'manipulation' even just cropping is 'manipulation'. Both trad & digital will have their 'champions' but to me the final image is the main goal, regardless of how we get there. I only use digital now, because it's convenient, cheaper, less messy (no darkroom clean-ups) and the quality is now comparable with good quality 35mm.
The digi camera I have leaves a lot to be desired compared to my previous Olympus 35mm & Bronica MF kits, but finance & time restrictions mean I can only be as productive using digital, Digital has given me a new enthusiasm for photography which during the 90's I had lost.
But I admit that I also enjoyed the processes involved in producing prints in the darkroom! & apart from the focussing I mainly use the camera on Manual settings. It's just something I enjoy!
At the end of the day, to me the equipment/methods used to capture my Ideas are just tools, the most important photographic tool we have is our imagination, this is where Images are created.
Just my Humble opinion,
Joe B
Good point snapbandit. (At the end of the day it's the equipment used to capture the minds imagination).
In my view there are 4 key elements that go to make a good photographer. Imagination - in order to create a composition or image that is in some way appealing. Vision - in order to "see" a shot where others can't. Knowledge - of the photographic process, how to balance contrasts, set exposure etc. and finally; Technique - in order to bring all of these elements together to produce a finished product that stimulates, informs, entertains, excites or indeed produces any emotion. The equipment used is largely irrelevant and the manipulation of the image in PS is also largely irrelevant. A purist might argue that the image should be caught in the camera, but I think this only holds true if the object of the exercise is to demonstrate your technique. I consider photography a valid artform and therefore it is the finished image that is important. I feel that the imagination and vision are more important than the knowledge and technique. How a finished image is achieved is academic. That said, I don't own a digital camera and I'm largely incapable of manipulating images in PS, so I'm restricted to cropping and adjusting levels and little more. But, I admire the fantastic work produced by those that can.
Frankly you wasted your money in getting photoshop for what you do since JASC Photo Album #4 or #5 for a fraction of the price would do it just as well.
But truely you are missing the point ... Ansell Adams was a great photographer becuase he knew what he could do in the darkroom, and in the darkroom he excelled. Photoshop is YOUR darkroom. [Or Paint Shop Pro for those without the cash for PS, else Elements]
Somebody who simply takes shots and doesn't use editing to enhance them where appropriate is simply being silly at the best and a masochist at the worst.
I relate the camera and editing as two legs on the path to great images, or crap in many cases, and you know what happens to people who only have one leg ... etc etc.
digital post-processing (not even manipulation) is necessary for a photos taken with digital cameras in the same way, like the darkroom fiddling for a traditional pictures.
if you don't want to use any digital darkroom it's like dropping exposed film to the boots just after exposing it using a compact camera. maybe good for holiday snaps, but it has nothing to do with photography.
it's like dropping exposed film to the boots just after exposing it using a compact camera. maybe good for holiday snaps, but it has nothing to do with photography.
This has as much to do with photography as anything posted on this site. It may not be good photography, but it is photography none the less. Holiday snaps tell a story or capture an instant in time. That is what photography is all about. If the end result is a photograph it must be photography by definition.
Many of us here I am sure will have started with the much derided holiday/family snap and have progressed to better things. I know I did.
We really must not get an over inflated opinion of ourselves!!
Dave
it's not about good or bad photography. it's not about what's better. what i mean is - INVOLVEMENT in all part of the process of creating photos is EQUALLY important. and it doesn't matter where and how it happens - in the darkroom or with use of photoshop.
sorry, but i still think, that there's slight difference between snaps and photography. it's about taking photos consciously, not about memorising the moment.
"We really must not get an over inflated opinion of ourselves!!"
well noticed, but perhaps added in the wrong place.
i used to have a problem with manipulation but many of the great photo's that have been taken over the years didn't come from the camera without some post manipulation and i imagine many photo's taken by professionals are manipulated by either the darkroom or computer in some way, it's the end result that counts and the learning process you undertake to get that result. i used to think of it as "cheating" but revised my opinion since some of my shots are heaps better after a session with psp. maybe thats just making up for my lack of skills as a photographer....but i'm getting better....lol
I use Photoshop quite a lot - until recently I had to take my website down due to bandwidth problems (Digital Creativity UK), which I hope to have up and running again very soon.
This site was aimed at people who, like myself, enjoy photography, but also enjoying manipulating photograph(s) to enhance or create an entirely new image from various photographs.
You don't just have to use Photoshop, there's PSP and other packages out there. It depends on what you want to achieve.
You can make some wierd and wonderful compositions using the computer and photographs. It doesn't matter how much you learn... it comes down to experimenting.
The main thing is to have fun and enjoy what you are doing. It wasn't until the last couple of years my photography seemed to be getting better. Before that I relied on 'other means' to help my photos along.
)
an excellent site for learning the methods of psp is www.pinoy7.com the techniques they show here can also be applied to photo manipulation.
Who cares what Ansel adams would say? Technology moves on and I for one love photoshop. I guess it depends whether your hung up and the mechanics of taking a picture or producing a stunning image at the end! Some say digital manipulation is cheating but then so must autofocus, TTL metering, filterss etc, etc, etc. For me its not an issue.
Dave I must admit I have to agree with Kris, holiday snaps do have their value but I see this site as about progressing beyond that. I certainly don't have an over-inflated opinion of my abilities, I am very much at the bottom of the learning curve, but it does push my buttons when I see 'snaps' in the gallery. Maybe thats arrogant and narrow minded but I'm just being honest!
LOL Neil, I can't keep up with your changing opinions on digital, it was only a couple of weeks ago that you were berating PS users as people who don't have to put any effort into their pics as they can sort them out when they get home!!!! Its a funny old world...
As to Photoshop, I think if Ansel Adams had lived 10 years more, he'd have said, 'Cool! How much does this cost ?'.
But we'll never know.
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