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To Photoshop or not to Photoshop, that is the question!

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    Cacus
    7
    133 forum posts
    16 Sep 2010 - 5:56 PM
    0

    Just been looking through last months Practical Photography and there's a nice shot of a fox that a reader has taken. Now one of the criticisms that was made was down to a distracting flower/branch on the bush the fox was under and it was suggested that this should have been removed in photoshop.

    I am curious on people thoughts are on the use of photoshop within photography. Though I've not uploaded an image for sometime I have always uploaded (bar 1) un-cropped un-edited photos, save a bit of sharpening and colour boosting.

    What are your thoughts?

    How far is too far when manipulating a photo? For example is removing distracting objects and cropping fine but would say removing the twig from across a birds body and 'rebuilding' the bird be a step too far! and what about artificial bokeh?

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    KathyW
    KathyW (e2 Member)
    8
    1720 forum postsKathyW vcard Norfolk Island11 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Sep 2010 - 6:05 PM
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    Whatever you like really... Some people (often those who have spent a lifetime using velvia film or dodging and burning, or cutting and pasting in the darkroom) think any manipulation is a dastardly crime and you should always get it "right" in camera... Others will quite happily clone out anything that takes their fancy and stick another sky and a few texture layers on the pic.

    The secret for wildlife and "natural" images is that no one should be able to tell if you photoshopped it or not... if you're not good at cloning, or haven't got the hang of selective blurring, don't do it...

    gary_d
    gary_d (e2 Member)
    4
    405 forum postsgary_d vcard Wales8 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Sep 2010 - 6:37 PM
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    My view on cloning is I will only clone out something I could have removed before the shot, a coke can or cigarette but for instance, if it is fixed as in a lamp post etc I leave it in as its part of the scene and if I decide to take the shot then it must form part of it. That has always been my rule which I know many will disagree with but each to his own.

    Regards. - gary

    cameracat
    cameracat (e2 Member)
    8
    8160 forum postscameracat vcard Norfolk Island60 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Sep 2010 - 6:44 PM
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    I'm with Kathy on this one.....Smile

    There is nothing new about making alterations to a photograph or image, When film was the main format, Clever guys in darkrooms had the skill and techniques to do almost everything that can be done in photoshop today, I know because one such genius took the time to teach me a few tricks......Smile

    One of the simplest was cupping your hands around the enlarger lens, Then you could allow light to spill onto the paper in different areas of the photograph.....Grin

    Does that sound familiar...? Dodging and Burning analogue styleee......Smile Perhaps.

    There where other tricks too, Some quite complex and a right pain in the proverbial, But very effective results non the less.....!!!

    The methods may have changed, But the concept and practice is nothing new.

    The amount you apply is purely personal, If its really good, No one will notice, If its bad you'll get a lot of squawking about manipulation from a certain sector of the community, That Kathy has alluded to already.....!!!

    Here is a typical scenario, You have found a nice view, You set up for a fab landscape, The light is fantastic, You take the shot.......Smile

    You get home and look at the shot in more detail on your computer screen, AAaaarrrgghhh, Just as you pressed the shutter, Way in the distance half a dozen crows fly through the frame, To far to be of use to the scene and for all the world they look like big dust spots.....Sad

    Do you leave them there? I would not, But you might feel they add something, Its all a bit subjective really.....Grin

    Ok, So lets say you clone the crows out.....Smile But now your wishing you had not left your " Grad Filters " at home.....Sad

    Do you leave it as it is, Because you forgot the grads....?

    Or do you darken the sky a tad....Smile Because thats how it would have looked, If you had remembered to take your grads with you.....Grin

    You mention using a little " Colour Boost " ! Well why not, If it makes the image look more like the one in your head, Or the one as you remember it....!!!

    Lets face it, Many film buffs used that weird " Velvia " film for just the same reason, To them it looked better, Though others thought differently.


    If we where all the same, Produced exactly the same images, Same colours, Same everything...!!!

    Life and photography would soon become very very boring indeed.

    Wink

    Cacus
    7
    133 forum posts
    16 Sep 2010 - 8:33 PM
    0


    Quote: Does that sound familiar...? Dodging and Burning analogue styleee...... Perhaps.

    A paper clip with blue-tack on the end and card with a hole in Grin Great days. Grin

    comma
    4
    63 forum posts United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
    18 Sep 2010 - 12:54 AM
    0

    In it's earliest incarnations photoshop was built to replicate many of the dark room techniques used by photographers and studio techniques commonly used by graphic artists. These were found to be perfectly acceptable in the non digital age, so I've never been too sure why the digital equivalent creates so many (and sometimes heated) conversations.


    Quote: Though I've not uploaded an image for sometime I have always uploaded (bar 1) un-cropped un-edited photos, save a bit of sharpening and colour boosting.

    What are your thoughts?


    Essentially your post says that you changed the colours (through saturation) and fixed the focus in your images, it might not seem a lot but you've actually made some pretty fundamental and significant changes to your images by using software - digital processing is all or nothing and either position is perfectly acceptable. Almost all the photographers I know fall into the digital processing camp - whether they choose acknowledge it or not. It's no big deal - the end result and all that...


    stuart

    roxpix
    8
    2236 forum posts Scotland11 Constructive Critique Points
    18 Sep 2010 - 7:47 AM
    0

    Unfortunately cameras are built these days that force the photographer to do a certain amount of post-processing

    Not doing it will result in an image that is only partially through the capture process Sad

    And because the post-processing actions are all user driven then there can be no 'right' amount of them

    Last Modified By roxpix at 18 Sep 2010 - 7:49 AM
    AngieLatham
    AngieLatham (e2 Member)
    7
    788 forum postsAngieLatham vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
    18 Sep 2010 - 7:49 AM
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    Is there still arguments raging about the use of Photoshop???? Tongue

    I find that most people who are still moaning about it are the people who either don't know how to use it or just can't use it very well and need more practice. At the end of the day you can't rescue a bad picture with photoshop (it will always look like you have rescued a bad picture useing photoshop) but you can enhance a good picture. How far you want to go in an artistic sense is surely down to personal taste and preference and as Photography is supposed to be an art form of personal expression ,and every famous photographer that ever lived was famous for having his or her own recognisable 'style' , I can't see where the problem is. Express yourself and be proud of whatever style you want to go for, be that natural or more arty. No-one else has the right to opress it.

    roxpix
    8
    2236 forum posts Scotland11 Constructive Critique Points
    18 Sep 2010 - 7:57 AM
    0

    Depends on your definition of a bad picture, there are many thousands of landscape shots for example that are bad until they have the sky replaced etc etc

    When we are lucky enough to see the before & after on this type of transformation its clear that the base image is pretty poor if judged in its own right but as the tog never intended it to be the finished article it becomes merely a component of their final creation (perhaps not even the most important component)

    p.s. Just using landscape genre as an example, not having a go. I can see the same varience in my own wildlife shots Wink

    Last Modified By roxpix at 18 Sep 2010 - 8:02 AM
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