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thewilliam
8 Nov 2013 - 3:16 PM


Quote: One factor does seem to be the rapidly increasing population, coupled with the rapid industrialization of countries that were primitive just a few years ago. If we were any other species, there would be a call for a serious cull.

If we're to share the planet with other creatures, we're going to have to lighten the load we impose on the planet.

No one seems to mention the obvious, we need to reduce the total population of the world by around 80% (if we don't I suspect that nature will find a way to do it for us)

One basic problem is that we've run out of wilderness into which we can expand. In the 5th century, the human surplus of Europe was able to move into an England that was no longer defended by the Romans and the indigenous population could be pushed into the extremities of the British Isles. Then, a millenium later, the Americas could be taken from their rightful owners. Where next? Mars?

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8 Nov 2013 - 3:16 PM

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jondf
jondf  82475 forum posts
8 Nov 2013 - 7:07 PM


Quote: One basic problem is that we've run out of wilderness into which we can expand. In the 5th century, the human surplus of Europe was able to move into an England that was no longer defended by the Romans and the indigenous population could be pushed into the extremities of the British Isles. Then, a millenium later, the Americas could be taken from their rightful owners. Where next? Mars?

I think it was during The Chase quiz programme that the question was asked: "What was the population of England at its highest point in the 18th century? Answer: 9 million ....incredible.

As to the Americas - well that does get me frothing at the cakehole. Wholesale barbarism in the name of religion. Desecration of the Red Indian race, the noble savage who'd been resident in the North American territories for countless millenia. And the Spaniards going into South America - in the name of God for Christ's sake! - mercilessly torturing and murdering non-believers when all they were really after was gold. Man and his many faces has a lot to answer for...

jondf
jondf  82475 forum posts
8 Nov 2013 - 7:35 PM


Quote: Oh, I'm with you jondf....

But you see Mike, you're not. Are deforestation and pollution acts of nature? Human nature, yes, but not nature. Is the chemical industry a naturally occurring phenomenon? No, it's the contrived wrong-footing of nature to man's advantage. Which is why so many folk are against genetic modification and engineering ....it's just not nature my dear.

As to my 'held in restraint' assertion. Of course massive forces are held in restraint, otherwise they'd happen. They don't happen because something's stopping them. When the conditions are right they will happen ....simple enough really.

Jestertheclown


Quote: Of course massive forces are held in restraint,

Of course . . .?

I'm not with you either.

mikehit
mikehit  56681 forum posts United Kingdom11 Constructive Critique Points
8 Nov 2013 - 8:01 PM

Your phrase was "unimaginable forces been held in restraint" and I asked by whom? That phrase suggests they are busting to get out but something is stopping them, but that is not the case - they happen no matter what man does. Pedantic - yes. But your comment was designed to emotively suggest that man was holding back natural forces - which is quite different to nature to their own ends. The latter is possible, the former is not - unless you can provide an example. Because if man could hold them in restraint them there would be no hurricanes destroying cities.


Quote: the noble savage who'd been resident in the North American territories for countless millenia.

Well....10....at most. And I can count up to 20, using my toes....maybe even 21 Tongue

jondf
jondf  82475 forum posts
8 Nov 2013 - 9:29 PM


Quote: But your comment was designed to emotively suggest that man was holding back natural forces

There was no emotion. The thread came about as a result of - if the article's to be believed - the highest winds ever recorded lashing the Philippines. The assertion subsequently made was that naturally occurring events, potentially catastrophic in nature, could well be just around the corner. Man may or may not have some small effect on these but as and when they happen - and they will - it will be in spite of man. According to the scientists certain events are inevitable. Continental drift, volcanic eruptions (Yellowstone is overdue), earthquakes, tidal waves etc. As and when continents collide, unimaginable catastrophes will unfold, the likes of which man will be forever in awe .....should he survive them.

thewilliam
8 Nov 2013 - 11:46 PM


Quote: According to the scientists certain events are inevitable. Continental drift, volcanic eruptions (Yellowstone is overdue), earthquakes, tidal waves etc. As and when continents collide, unimaginable catastrophes will unfold, the likes of which man will be forever in awe .....should he survive them.

Maybe it's better for nature to remind us of our proper place. We do seem to be getting a little too big for our boots.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315614 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
9 Nov 2013 - 12:05 AM


Quote: The Climate is constantly changing and it always has since the beginning of time.

One could argue that humanity doesn't help it although I suspect that the outcome of whatever happens in the future would be the same anyhow.

As an example, the UK was once covered in ice, at another time it was tropical and similar things have occurred all over the Earth and will continue.

Ken

Even the poles shifted at some point scientist have found Smile

spaceman
spaceman  105166 forum posts Wales3 Constructive Critique Points
9 Nov 2013 - 1:01 AM


Quote: Even the poles shifted at some point scientist have found

They've come over here and taken our jobs. Grin

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139544 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
9 Nov 2013 - 2:08 AM


Quote: Even the poles shifted at some point scientist have found

They've come over here and taken our jobs. Grin

Grin

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110366 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
9 Nov 2013 - 6:51 AM

The Gaians are coming - in fact they are here! Wink

jondf
jondf  82475 forum posts
9 Nov 2013 - 8:19 AM


Quote: The Gaians are coming - in fact they are here!

Dead right. I saw two yesterday, in Waitrose...

jondf
jondf  82475 forum posts
9 Nov 2013 - 8:32 AM


Quote: And as a sceptical scientist myself I am always wary of a scientific theory that claims to explain everything to the point of being non-falsifiable.

Well, any respectable scientist must by default be sceptical. Unfortunately there're scientists funded by corporate organisations in whose interests these so-called scientists act. Everyday we see subtle and psychological manipulation of the truth peddled by those who derive their income from the organisations they represent .....it shouldn't be allowed.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110366 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
9 Nov 2013 - 8:54 AM


Quote: Everyday we see subtle and psychological manipulation of the truth peddled by those who derive their income from the organisations they represent .....it shouldn't be allowed.

like Greenpeace maybe?

and here

Pots and kettles maybe

jondf
jondf  82475 forum posts
9 Nov 2013 - 9:00 AM


Quote: Your phrase was "unimaginable forces been held in restraint" and I asked by whom?

Not by whom but by what. A volcano lies dormant until conditions are right for it to erupt, as is the case with all other naturally occurring events. The volcano is held in check by the earth's crust until hot gases and magma reach a critical point. Catastrophic earthquakes bide their time, waiting for the earth's plates to move against each other. Sand and sea shells can be found halfway up mountains meaning either tidal waves of unimaginable size occurred or beaches reared up under the massive forces of continental impact. These things aren't happening right now because current geophysical conditions prevent them from happening. Man's had it easy during his short tenure on Earth. It took billions of years to get to the conditions we've been enjoying of late but the Earth is in a constant state of change ....it's a scientific fact.

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