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Using ICC profiles


LeighRebecca 7 267 10 England
2 Sep 2009 12:05PM
I've got a new Epson r2880 and I can print OK (but a little dark) when I use printer manages colours and no particular tweaks. That was always the setting I used on my previous ip4500, because when I tried to let photoshop elements manage colours it sent them very weird!

Now I am determined to try to sort out using ICC profiles and letting photoshop manage colours.

When I let ps manage colours, but then leave the printer profile as the generic "working srgb with lots of numbers" the results seem the same as letting printer manage colours.

BUT when I choose a specific profile for the paper being used - including one I just downloaded for galerie smooth pearl paper - the print preview shows the image will have a very strong magenta cast, and is simply a mile out.

The printer colour management is definitely turned off, btw.

I don't know what to try next really.

Does anybody know where I am going wrong please?

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justin c 11 4.6k 36 England
2 Sep 2009 12:13PM
Selecting Printer manages colours is the prefered option for when you don't have icc paper profiles available.

Selecting Photoshop manages colours is always the better option when you do have profiles and you want the most control and degree of accuracy. Select this option and ignore the print preview window. In most versions of Photoshop it doesn't give you an indication of how your print will turn out, nor is it supposed to. It's just there to give an indication of your image placement on the page.

View the image on screen using the Soft Proof setting to get an accurate indication.

Justin
LeighRebecca 7 267 10 England
2 Sep 2009 12:45PM
Thanks Justin. I don't think there's a soft proof setting in elements.

I'll try printing despite the print prview, but I do think I've done that in the past and it has turned out awful. I'll get back when I've tried it.


Oops, I've tried it, and you are right - the print doesn't have the magenta cast, but it's no better than letting the printer manage colours - it is darker and with less of the colour of the other print. And I can't see any option to tweak the settings once photoshop is managing the colours. Is there a way of using the proper ICC profiles, but tweaking brightness, colour etc and saving those changes for each print?
strawman 11 22.0k 16 United Kingdom
2 Sep 2009 1:25PM
Leigh is your monitor calibrated? If not it is probably best to get that done first. when I did on mine the prints started to come out correct.
justin c 11 4.6k 36 England
2 Sep 2009 1:46PM

Quote:And I can't see any option to tweak the settings once photoshop is managing the colours. Is there a way of using the proper ICC profiles, but tweaking brightness, colour etc and saving those changes for each print?


You wouldn't really need to tweak the settings after sending the image to print, or at least you shouldn't need to.
You would generally get your image looking just the way you want it on screen. If your monitor is calibrated and set-up correctly and you select the correct icc paper profile, then the screen and print should match fairly well.
The reason why you would select Photoshop manages colours is because you're disabling the print driver from making any changes to your image. You've got it looking the way you want it in Photoshop and youe effectively passing that information straight to the printer, as it is.

As Strawman says, you really need to be working on a calibrated monitor to have a fighting chance of getting accurate and consistent results.



Quote:it is darker and with less of the colour


One thing that may be causing the print to look dark is less than ideal viewing conditions. Holding the print next to a North facing window or a South facing one (on a cloudy day) should give a reasonibly accurate indication of print brightness and colour accuracy.
The muted colours could be caused by lots of things. If it's a bright saturated image the colours may be out of gamut, i.e. the printer is unable to reproduce them accurately. If the image is of this type, it's best to set the Rendering Intent to Perceptual.
LeighRebecca 7 267 10 England
2 Sep 2009 1:59PM
Thanks guys. I did try rendering intent as perceptual for another print - which is the first I've done at full size and quality, and it looks pretty good now. Thanks again.
NEWMANP e2
6 1.6k 574 United Kingdom
2 Sep 2009 2:22PM
Leigh
magenta caste is pretty universally inherrent on most printers, im sure its designed to waste ink and paper
have you tried,
colour management on.
photoshop decides colours.
select icc profile (which will be an epson paper profile installed as standard)
intent reletive colormetric
black dither tick
print

dont judge until dry, they always alter

have a look at Simons website---he does custom profiles and is cheap and very good. sets up to save ink and profiles to your choice of paper in tandem with the peculiarities of your own printer. the site contains useful info. www.scs-imaging.co.uk
but depending whos paper you should be able to download a specific profile for your choice of paper.


mines Canon but i suspect the printing protocols are similar.
Phil
justin c 11 4.6k 36 England
2 Sep 2009 2:52PM

Quote:magenta caste is pretty universally inherrent on most printers


Eh!! Don't know where that information comes from. There should be no colour cast whatsoever when the printer is set-up correctly.
Colour casts are down to user error, not a fault with printer's in general.

Besides, the original poster isn't having an issue with the prints showing a magenta cast but with the print preview screen exhibiting one, which is an entirely different matter altogether and has already been explained.
NEWMANP e2
6 1.6k 574 United Kingdom
2 Sep 2009 3:20PM
well, id have to agree to dissagree
the new A3 printer will come to you set up for using manufacturers paper and ink. based on printer making decisions and the profile info supplied on the start up disc that comes with it.. then on auto print you may get a reasonable result. look on the forum history and see how many times this has come up before when 3rd party papers or inks have been used.

if you use ilford paper with a canon gloss profile on a Canon printer it will give you a magenta caste--fact.

12 members of our camera club have the same issues.

i had a specialist from a colour management and calibration service come to my home and set me up. he assures me the problem is epic in proportions.
Phil
strawman 11 22.0k 16 United Kingdom
2 Sep 2009 3:39PM
My experience is that non-brand papers have different absorption rates, so yes colour casts when using those is to be expected, but on standard papers magenta colour cast is unusual.

I thought the magenta issue was more an Ilford and Epson combination thing.
NEWMANP e2
6 1.6k 574 United Kingdom
2 Sep 2009 3:42PM
i dont dissagree about the rest though, the preview colours mismatching and such. and its true that the main source of error is with the user, but as for switch on and print, -- im not so sure about that .
Phil
NEWMANP e2
6 1.6k 574 United Kingdom
2 Sep 2009 3:46PM
its probably a bit to do with the whiteness of the paper too. in addition to the absorbtion rate.
justin c 11 4.6k 36 England
2 Sep 2009 3:48PM

Quote:if you use ilford paper with a canon gloss profile on a Canon printer it will give you a magenta caste--fact.



I'm not suprised, it's no wonder they're having problems. The idea is to use Ilford profiles with Ilford paper.

That's a bit like saying your new petrol car isn't working properly since you started filling it with diesel.



Quote:the new A3 printer will come to you set up for using manufacturers paper and ink.


That's not really the issue here though. The printer isn't actually set-up at all. It's down to the user to select the most appropriate settings to achieve optimum quality.
Again, using the example of a car. You may get a new one delivered all set up to drive, but if you don't know how to drive it properly then you won't get the best from it.


Quote:i had a specialist from a colour management and calibration service come to my home and set me up. he assures me the problem is epic in proportions.


I don't doubt that, but my point is, it isn't a problem with the printing machines themselves, it's the inexperience of the user that's at fault and I don't mean that in a derogatory way in the slightest. Colour management is a minefield, extremely daunting and extremely easy to get wrong. But, once you've got to grips with it you can and will get good and consistent results.
Of course you hear of lots of people having issues with colour casts, dark prints, light prints, wrong colours,etc,etc but that's not an issue with the machine, it's the settings which are set incorrectly input by the user.
justin c 11 4.6k 36 England
2 Sep 2009 3:51PM
I posted the above without seeing your aditional posts. Yes I quite agree that straight out of the box with minimul experience of printing, then indeed it can be tricky (and frustrating) to get the best results.
But that's a bit like getting a new camera for the first time, once you get to grips with it, things start coming together.
NEWMANP e2
6 1.6k 574 United Kingdom
2 Sep 2009 3:59PM
now i fully agree.
but people unpack, set up and put any paper in and think the generic profile supplied will work because it says gloss, matt or whatever.
bang right its about installing the right profile and making the other settings as they should be, then its ok.-- but you wont see that in the book with the printer and it takes a lot of questions and head banging and wasted paper and ink to understand and get the right answers.

yes i totally agree that you can get excellent results in the end.
as i said i had S.C.S. who solved the lot for me in around 1hr for about 60 and they calibrated my screen and produced custom profiles and the difference to ink consuption and paper wastage paid for that in weeks.

I wish i had known about this site then and the resource of its members and willingness to help.
Phil

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