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Vision Problems may be causing me to over-sharpen, help please

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brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110181 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 8:33 AM

I'm still having problems with my eyesight when using the monitor (follows on from when I damaged my eye a while back). As a result I think I may be over-sharpening my images during resizing for posting here and elsewhere on the web.

Will you please have a look at these two pics and tell me which, in your view, is the most properly sharpened

prairie-dog-1.jpg

prairie-dog-1-non-sharp.jpg

Thanks,

Brian

Last Modified By brian1208 at 16 Sep 2012 - 8:34 AM
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16 Sep 2012 - 8:33 AM

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SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 54239 forum postsSlowSong vcard England28 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 8:53 AM

V2 definintely looks better to me Brian. Although different places look better than others.
I prefer V2 for the top of the head, under the eyes and paws
But V1 for the nose and whiskers.
That's probably not helpful, but overall V2.
Different people's screens may tell a different story.

widtink
widtink  2406 forum posts Scotland2 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 9:01 AM

This is a hard one Brian i actually prefer V1 but i sometimes oversharpen myself ! Tongue Think its down to individual taste they are both great images. Can i just ask is it better to sharpen the image first or after i have guddled with contrast etc
or does it not matter Grin

Rod

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 54239 forum postsSlowSong vcard England28 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 9:23 AM

It's recommended that sharpening is the last thing you do. Especially after resizing.

JJGEE
JJGEE  96233 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 9:25 AM

Nice of you to choose an easy subject for us to judge on ! Wink

I find fur quite difficult to get the balance right and with the software I use, Lightroom, the culprit is usually the clarity slider more than the sharpening.
Yes I know effectively clarity is in a way sharpening, adjusting local contrast.

With these two the bottom image appears the best for close viewing, which is what you are asking about.

But from the other side of the room the top image looks fine, so perhaps would be better for a large print.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110181 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 9:47 AM


Quote: It's recommended that sharpening is the last thing you do. Especially after resizing.

that's how I do it too

Thanks for you observations, so far, they are helpful.

I have a somewhat cack-handed way of readying images for web. I do my main processing up to and including printing using LR4 and find that easy to do.

I then edit in PSP12, resize for web and, if I think it needs it, sharpen using High Pass Sharpening. Until I had my eye problems I was always happy that I could judge this right but I'm suffering from a bit of blurring & distortion at the moment and am gaving real difficulty deciding when enough is enough.

(I've had a chat with the optician about getting my eyes re-tested but they persuaded me I need to leave it about 6 months for my vison to "stabilise")

JJGEE
JJGEE  96233 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 9:52 AM


Quote: then edit in PSP12, resize for web and, if I think it needs it, sharpen using High Pass Sharpening.

I guess you have already tried but why are you not do the resizing etc. from within Lightroom ?

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 54239 forum postsSlowSong vcard England28 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 9:55 AM

Do you zoom in to view the image when sharpening? It's much easier to see what's going on if you enlarge individual parts of the image to see an effect.
Then if some parts are sharper than you wish you can add a layer mask and erase those areas you want to keep softer.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110181 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 9:56 AM

I guess you are right Jeff but its a habit I've got stuck with and until recently have been quite happy doing it the old way. Maybe time to try something different Smile

If you do it via LR4 do you resize for web and re-sharpen or just leave the settings as they were?

Yes Chris I do zoom and check but as I say, the fuzzy edges to my view of the screen doesn't help me here (and when I put my glasses on it just sharpens the fuzz Sad )

I do like the way LR4 lets one make localised adjustments and for sales / competition prints thats the way I do it to get the best possible output

Last Modified By brian1208 at 16 Sep 2012 - 10:01 AM
User_Removed
16 Sep 2012 - 10:01 AM

I use LR4 and sharpen as the last stage of the post-processing workflow.

If I need an A3+ print I make it. If I need to export an 800x600px for the web, I export it. I do not alter the sharpening in any way between those two "outputs".

JJGEE
JJGEE  96233 forum posts England18 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 10:19 AM

Brian,
Herewith the settings for my Lightroom export.

You would need to change some of the settings to reflect the larger images allowed for e2 members.


lrexport.jpg

Ade_Osman
Ade_Osman e2 Member 114484 forum postsAde_Osman vcard England36 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 10:29 AM

If using PSP12/13/14 Bri, make use of the Ctrl+Shift+A shortcut which brings up the image as a full screen preview. If you have a wheeled mouse and most are these days you can then zoom up the image size whilst in this preview mode. I rarely use the High Pass Sharpen command, prefering instead to just use Sharpen command once maybe twice at a push.
I also never use the Save for Web command, I find it's just to lossy in it's compression. Instead I make a copy of the original, then use Resize, change the resolution count to 72dpi and resize the longest side to a 1000 pixels, (the EPZ standard). This is when I now make my sharpen adjustments. I then use the Save As command, when the window comes up, select options, the click the button Run Optimiser. change the values here, until it's set around or near the Compressed Value of 400kb. This again is the size allowed by EPZ, Click OK when you've done this and you then give the file a name. Then upload to EPZ!.......I've been doing it this way specifically for EPZ since we've been allowed to post large images, and it seems to be the best way so far as I can tell of doing it

Hope this all makes sense.......I posted a couple of images so you know your in the right place.

Ade

4-image1.jpg
3-image2.jpg

Ade_Osman
Ade_Osman e2 Member 114484 forum postsAde_Osman vcard England36 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 10:32 AM

Oh well now Jeff's uploaded his method using Lightroom, you now can try both methods...

Sorry Jeff cross posted you mate Tongue

Ade

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110181 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 10:40 AM

Thanks for the various suggestions lads, I will have a play and see how I get on.

As to my original question re: the corect level of sharpness it seems that the answer may be "Yes but No but" Smile

Ade, your process is very similar to mine

Last Modified By brian1208 at 16 Sep 2012 - 10:41 AM
Ade_Osman
Ade_Osman e2 Member 114484 forum postsAde_Osman vcard England36 Constructive Critique Points
16 Sep 2012 - 10:48 AM

We can't be doing too bad then Bri....Tongue

Ade

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