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VS Mode - What's the verdict?

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Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1218416 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 1:38 PM


Quote: Tell me how you can compare a perfect landscape with a superb portrait as each can be of an equally high standard

It gets harder but I in most cases it's possible to put one above the other, and if impossible, skip to the next

Quote: how do some pictures appear over one hundred times and far better pictures appear just once or twice

There are still tweaks to be made to get the counts and database calls correct so the right pictures are displayed at the right frequency.

Last Modified By Pete at 17 Apr 2013 - 1:41 PM
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17 Apr 2013 - 1:38 PM

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PhilT2
PhilT2 e2 Member 490 forum postsPhilT2 vcard England5 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 1:48 PM

Hi Nick
Not trying to be controversial here though it may be coming across as such.
How can you define what is best without taking into account personal taste. I think if you paired any two members from this site and asked them to compare two shots from the world's greatest photographers you would get a different answer.
I accept that your photographic experience and skill is so far above mine that I may as well be on another planet........but with two perfect pictures I may still not be swayed by what you consider the best of these. My choice in all things is swayed by my own personal preference.
I get the jist of both your comment and Pete's but there really is no such thing as the best in anything (only what each individual percieves as the best)



If this VS mode is to continue then it needs to be more random and the slate needs to be wiped. The current unassailable leader is a very appealing and good photograph..........but it is certainly not the best by far

PhilT2
PhilT2 e2 Member 490 forum postsPhilT2 vcard England5 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 1:50 PM

Hi Pete
Thanks for reply...........but on that basis we will end up just skipping all the shots and nothing gets resolved.

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 63723 forum postsNick_w vcard England98 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 2:51 PM

Phil, its inevitable tastes will play a part. But we expect Pete for example to be neutral with HC's / EC's and he does award a wide variety of subjects / processing styles. As a site EPZ will only be vibrant with a diversity of subjects and styles, if we only had for examples pictures of say Curbar Edge and nothing else for week after week it would soon become dull (I could just as easily have picked a subject from any genre etc - nothing against Curbar its one of my favourite locations). I know of a couple of members / ex members who rarely post these days, there comment is its the "same old, same old". The Vs Mode was an honest attempt to try to mitigate this.

My own opinion is we only improve by opening our minds to different subjects, for example recently I have been forcing myself to play with still lifes, I believe it has helped me with compositions, and lighting and they will play a part in my DM work. I would like to think my own PF has improved in general, largely because I have tried different genres, and then used leasons learned in your prefered genre.

My point is if you are asked to judge 2 images side by side you should judge images on their relative merits - or you shouldn't judge them at all. After all you would expect that from a camera club judge, wouldn't you?

PhilT2
PhilT2 e2 Member 490 forum postsPhilT2 vcard England5 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 3:56 PM

Hiya Nick
I am in full agreement with your comments and I accept your reasoning fully.

Quote: My point is if you are asked to judge 2 images side by side you should judge images on their relative merits - or you shouldn't judge them at all. After all you would expect that from a camera club judge, wouldn't you?

My point is simply one of how do you, having looked at each image and decided on the fact that each has an equal number of merits, then select one over the other.............It has to be personal preference. If you are looking for a winner and you are the soul judge then what is the final thing that separates them.....it has to be personal preference. It is definately easier to judge a picture at a larger scale and under such circumstances it would be easier to find more faults with images in terms of sharpness or digital noise, etc. But at the small scale we are viewing the VS images these finer details are not always clear.

I am a bit of a fan of the VS Mode but I think it cannot ever achieve what it may have attempted. Too many images etc. As a bit of fun and a means of seeing a much wider selection of photos and genres then it succeeds. It is a tool to make you think and maybe learn why you like a particular shot by better understanding lighting and composition then it's worth while. Perhaps the better photographers have no interest and don't like their picture being compared with snapshots, so its not for all (oops!! personal preference rears its head again)WinkWink

I have a tendancy to shoot what I enjoy and have the opportunity to shoot. I will eventually try other elements of photography when I can spend more time persuing my photographic interests. It will probably give me greater technical insight into different areas.
Having said that I can spot the difference between a good picture and a bad one irrespective of what type of picture it is. I often see pictures of subjects that I may never wish to photograph but recognise instantly the quality and would certainly pick in favour of a subject I like but is not so technically outstanding.
The final choice is down to one issue only......two equal shots with the same degree of technical expertise and quality of focus, composition and aesthetic balance............only your own taste will now split the verdict.
Personal preference is the strongest and best part of the human psyche and gives us all the opportunity for individuality it cannot be denied or supressed. It's what makes you who you are.

I probably have to agree to disagree with yourself and Pete in this topic and I have enjoyed the debate and appreciate you taking the time to reply

My apoligies to "cats_123" for my hijacking your thread
SmileSmileSmile

Last Modified By PhilT2 at 17 Apr 2013 - 3:57 PM
cats_123
cats_123 e2 Member 103956 forum postscats_123 vcard Northern Ireland24 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 4:09 PM


Quote: My apoligies to "cats_123" for my hijacking your thread

No problem...I'm surprised it still getting such a reaction. I hadn't ventured in for a while and although I still get quite a few `hits', it's not my favourite part of the site. SmileSmile

PhilT2
PhilT2 e2 Member 490 forum postsPhilT2 vcard England5 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 4:13 PM

Just drop me a line and I'll see if I can join in.............GrinGrinGrinGrin

adrian_w
adrian_w e2 Member 63201 forum postsadrian_w vcard Scotland4 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 5:00 PM


Quote: what's the point in voting for one image against another when they are different subjects and cannot be compared.

But that's precisely what open competition judges have to do.

StuartAt
StuartAt e2 Member 91029 forum postsStuartAt vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 8:32 PM

I find it good fun; something different and lets me see images I might not see otherwise. I think people take it too seriously - absolutely personal taste will come into it, but why does that really matter? Why do any of us care whether one photo is better than another?

Last Modified By StuartAt at 17 Apr 2013 - 8:32 PM
cuffit
cuffit  7160 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
17 Apr 2013 - 10:57 PM

I think it's a good feature but, for me, it detracts from the galleries; however, I feel obliged to have a go every now and again as people are voting on my photos. I cannot complain that my photos are not selected and they do well, albeit, they have only each been seen once or a few times at most but at least they are in the hat. The question I raised some time ago is how do some photos get 70-plus showings? Even if my photos are not so good as those on the leader board, shouldn't I have at least one shot with one win and 69 losses!!

Chris

Last Modified By cuffit at 17 Apr 2013 - 10:58 PM
JackAllTog
JackAllTog e2 Member 53469 forum postsJackAllTog vcard United Kingdom58 Constructive Critique Points
18 Apr 2013 - 9:50 AM

Although I rarely go there, when i do, I use it to "Think" about the photo more, rather than just the initial subject. I believe this improves my photography a bit and my ability to judge a little bit more.

Also I use it as light relief or for inspiration occasionally - 'lets have a bash through the vS gallery and see what the wider world is doing' Smile

I've turned off all the notifications, but like the fact that its there if i want to look.

Ade_Osman
Ade_Osman e2 Member 114435 forum postsAde_Osman vcard England36 Constructive Critique Points
18 Apr 2013 - 11:18 AM

I think my views on it are well known and have been well voiced in the past Wink

I haven't used it for as long as I care to mention, I don't take much stall from the results it generates on my images, despite leaving the option 'on' to have my images used in it. An option which I fought for vehemently to have when the system first started I might add. I still fail to see how say a macro image can be compared with a nude or something completely differently altogether, but again this was something I complained about at the start and from what I can see it's gotten no better over time.

So in conclusion it's not something I use or really bother with, I have tried, but got bored with all it's failings very quickly. But if other folk get something out of it, then my attitude is you carry on, who am I to stop you enjoying the way you use the site Smile

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139367 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
18 Apr 2013 - 1:40 PM


Quote: It's going to be in beta for the foreseeable future

= dead in the water! Lol! Wink

digicammad
digicammad e2 Member 1021988 forum postsdigicammad vcard United Kingdom37 Constructive Critique Points
18 Apr 2013 - 3:10 PM

CB that's a typical example of taking part of a quote and as a consequnce totally losing the context. Why are you so gleeful at the prospect that something the team have done to try and add another interesting aspect to the site may not have worked as hoped? Are you really that sad?

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139367 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
18 Apr 2013 - 4:46 PM

I was just mildly amused at the wording - some way short of being gleeful. It struck me as being a bit Yes Minister-ish. Wink

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