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Warp speed - here we come! ;-)

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Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 5:10 PM

It suddenly makes a lot of sci-fi seem............. reasonable! "It's life - but not as we know it, Jim" Grin

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23 Sep 2011 - 5:10 PM

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joolsb
joolsb  927115 forum posts Switzerland38 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 5:23 PM


Quote: Well I think we should all be very excited about it..............

Errr, why? Neutrinos are weird particles anyway (they don't interact at all with other particles and there are loads passing through us and the Earth every day without us (or them) so much as noticing) so it doesn't follow that proper stuff will be able to get up to light speed... Even if the people at CERN have got their sums right.

Last Modified By joolsb at 23 Sep 2011 - 5:23 PM
jondf
jondf  82475 forum posts
23 Sep 2011 - 5:27 PM


Quote: Looks like we may be able to exceed the speed of light after all!

'Ere.....he's nicked my topic, the sod. Get the beady eyes in and get it sorted!


4-image1.jpg

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 6:06 PM


Quote:
Errr, why? Neutrinos are weird particles anyway (they don't interact at all with other particles and there are loads passing through us and the Earth every day without us (or them) so much as noticing) so it doesn't follow that proper stuff will be able to get up to light speed... Even if the people at CERN have got their sums right.

Who is to say it's only neutrinos? If science has got something like the speed of light, being such an absolute limitation, so badly wrong then what else is wrong?

If this discovery is proved to be correct, I think it is a great step forward. Smile

joolsb
joolsb  927115 forum posts Switzerland38 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 7:21 PM


Quote: Who is to say it's only neutrinos?

Not a lot else can be sent through solid rock as if it's not there.... Wink

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 7:45 PM

Even if it's only neutrinos, it still means one of the "immutable" laws of physics is wrong. Which, more importantly, starts to throw doubt on all sorts of other things we hold to be sacred science, so to speak. Wink

Quite a good 'layman terms' interview with Brian Cox here and a Time article here.

Could all be a glitch of course. Grin

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014125 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 8:18 PM


Quote: Even if it's only neutrinos, it still means one of the "immutable" laws of physics is wrong.

Well that's how science works - if the evidence dosn't match our understanding of the universe, we rethink our understanding of the universe.

Quote:
Which, more importantly, starts to throw doubt on all sorts of other things we hold to be sacred science, so to speak. Wink

Why? - what's the evidence for the "other things" to be in doubt ?

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 8:49 PM


Quote: Well that's how science works - if the evidence dosn't match our understanding of the universe, we rethink our understanding of the universe.

Indeed and you can see why people turn to religion! Wink


Quote: Why? - what's the evidence for the "other things" to be in doubt ?

If something on which we have such certainty is now in doubt then everything else, especially where we are more tentative, is thrown in doubt. Just a matter of logic.

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014125 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 8:54 PM


Quote: Indeed and you can see why people turn to religion! Wink

Nope - I can't understand why rather than trying to understand things, why you just make stuff up instead.


Quote: If something on which we have such certainty is now in doubt then everything else, especially where we are more tentative, is thrown in doubt. Just a matter of logic.

Then the logic is flawed, the only thing it throws into doubt are things it is relevant to.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110227 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 10:39 PM


Quote: Just a matter of logic


Quote: Indeed and you can see why people turn to religion!



neat juxtaposition CB! Grin

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 10:49 PM


Quote: I can't understand why rather than trying to understand things, why you just make stuff up instead.

We do that all the time. We make up scientific theories because our antlike brains struggle to make sense of the world and the universe. The reality is probably way beyond us at our current state of evolution.


Quote: Then the logic is flawed, the only thing it throws into doubt are things it is relevant to.

Er no. It casts doubt over everything. If true (and it is a big if at the moment) this is just possibly the most important realisation, since we realised the Earth is spherical and not flat.

One wonders what else we take for granted, because chaps in white coats with letters before and after their names have told us something, but which isn't really so. Probably quite a lot.

strawman
strawman  1022006 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
23 Sep 2011 - 11:24 PM

CB I can tell you are not a man of science and have not work with many scientists, because if you had you would know how hard it is for them to make clear simple definitive statements even on straight forward topics Wink Example


Quote: because chaps in white coats with letters before and after their names have told us something, but which isn't really so

you really need to get over that complex. Science gives us a set of theorems and models to explain how all around us works, religion gives you hard beliefs. You confuse the two and assign behaviours that are not there. Remember these guys have left the option that they have made a mistake or that the experiment has been flawed and have published their data.

This does not cast doubt on everything, if it did we would have noticed it before if you think about it. For example gravity still works as it ever did. All it changes is the detailed model in some specific areas as the scientific models change as you change the scale of the examination. I hope there is something new to learn as it gives us a chance to learn and discover more.

User_Removed
24 Sep 2011 - 12:17 AM

I believe the scientists everytime. Sometimes they get it wrong and change their theories. I then believe the new theories.

I'd still rather believe scientists about science than politicians, religion, Uri Geller, "Dr" Gillian McKeith or Carabosse.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139395 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2011 - 1:30 AM


Quote: CB I can tell you are not a man of science and have not work with many scientists


Quote: you really need to get over that complex

Well you've got that one totally wrong! Grin My academic background is entirely a science one. It is because of that I know how much is based on................. often very little. I have nothing to get over.


Quote: I believe the scientists everytime

When it comes to it......... it's all belief. Whether the person is wearing a white coat or a dog collar. Wink

In the modern age we often prefer to believe the white-coated ones.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110227 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
24 Sep 2011 - 6:50 AM


Quote: When it comes to it......... it's all belief. Whether the person is wearing a white coat or a dog collar.

When I hear the Pope state


Quote: "we are not claiming things, we want just to be helped by the community in understanding our crazy result - because it is crazy".


Then I may agree with you CB.

As you well know Science is based on a methodology not "Belief", indeed many of of our great discoveries come from the "Suspension of disbelief" as in, "let us imagine for the moment that" and exploring possible consequences as here

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