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Well said Boris

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monstersnowman
11 Sep 2012 - 3:52 PM


Quote: Hi Ewanneil .. whilst I quoted one or two words you used my post wasn't aimed at you in particular but more about the general attitude toward Boris. And yes he is lampooned and may not command respect but that is MY WHOLE POINT ... the fact that he is lampooned and may not command respect is not justified and mainly based on things that really are facile, shallow and superficial rather than on what matters ie, honesty, integrity, intelligence etc. I will then refer to something I say on a very regular basis about almost everything. If Boris is then judged in this facile, superficial and shallow manner we end up getting the politicians who are preoccupied with image, spin and style over substance and as such we get these lying, spin driven, manicured and well scripted but vacuuous and substanceless vote chasers - we deserve no more. 'We get what we deserve'.

And that is why it is best that someone like Boris is kept out of the political leadership - we need his type close to, but not at, the centre of power where he can be the sounding board for the feeling of the population.

It was often said that the most powerful person in days of yore was the cout jester. He alone was allowed to lampoon the king and get away with it - in so doing his role was to help stop the king losing touch with his subjects. I think Boris is far from a jester (he is far too intelligent for that) but his image as harmless buffoon would help communicate between people and politicians.

Mind you, Blair tried that with Frank Field - remember his remit to 'think the unthinkable' until thinking awkward things got him sacked?

Its a fair point and one I have considered. Once in power it wont be long before a popular figure can become a hated and mistrusted figure. We could always venerate him and keep him for 'the people' lol ... 'Saint Boris' ... it has a ring ;o)

Last Modified By monstersnowman at 11 Sep 2012 - 3:52 PM
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strawman
strawman  1022002 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
11 Sep 2012 - 3:52 PM


Quote: We are not in the Eurozone

Sorry loose term usage as I work with a lot of non-European businesses and being inside the EU is important without having the single currency (inside the trade zone is referred as Eurozone at work though I realise it has single currency connotations) so bad turn of phrase from me. I was thinking it more important to be in the EU for trade reasons. We are a part of Europe and as I daily deal with people who are not Brits I do think we tend to bash them unfairly and are over negative towards other European countries.

As for single currency, not in favour in its current form but it could be OK within a single financial policy Europe, but we and many other countries in Europe are not ready for that. yet.

Last Modified By strawman at 11 Sep 2012 - 3:53 PM
Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
11 Sep 2012 - 4:09 PM


Quote: We are a part of Europe and as I daily deal with people who are not Brits I do think we tend to bash them unfairly and are over negative towards other European countries. .

The whole point is WE MUST BE PERMITTED TO CHOOSE OUR OWN DESTINY not the morons and buffoons in westminster.

mikehit
mikehit  46166 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
11 Sep 2012 - 4:47 PM

Er.. isn't that the point of our democratic model? That we elect people to take decisions for us? Or are you one of those who believes a democracy is only a democracy if it makes decisions you agree with?

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314915 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
11 Sep 2012 - 4:52 PM


Quote: I think I must have just emerged at the other end of some weird reality warp. Boris!! I mean, BORIS!! He's a buffoon and god help us all if he get's any more of a grip on power

Lol I bet you have never even met the man Smile

Ewanneil
Ewanneil  41118 forum posts Scotland2 Constructive Critique Points
11 Sep 2012 - 5:22 PM


Quote: Lol I bet you have never even met the man Smile

No, I haven't but it doesn't stop me gaining an impression of the man based on his public behaviour.

If we are going to restrict the making of comments to people who have actually met the subject of threads then there won't be much debate. The concurrent Andy Murray thread is an another example.

mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
11 Sep 2012 - 6:52 PM


Quote: Er.. isn't that the point of our democratic model? That we elect people to take decisions for us?

I'm not sure that that's strictly correct. I believed that we elected people to represent our interests in parliament, not so that our elected representatives could disregard our interests and either do their own thing, or follow the party line regardless.

monstersnowman
12 Sep 2012 - 2:39 AM

Represent our interests - take decisions for us .... Can they not be the same thing ??? I don't think there is much difference really. They obviously can't consult on every decision so I am sure every voter accepts that politicians will make decisions on our behalf, and as we expect a reasonable minded politician to be flexible, honest and intelligent enough to respond to changing circumstances we can only expect a degree of autonomy In our politicians, otherwise we may as well just employ a civil servant and hold referenda on every single subject.

mikehit
mikehit  46166 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
12 Sep 2012 - 9:18 AM


Quote: , not so that our elected representatives could disregard our interests .

And who decides if they are disregarding our interests?

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
12 Sep 2012 - 10:06 AM


Quote: Er.. isn't that the point of our democratic model? That we elect people to take decisions for us? Or are you one of those who believes a democracy is only a democracy if it makes decisions you agree with?

Democracy is where the peoples' view is heard not that of their representatives. Our model is flawed as far as democracy is concerned. After all the hue and cry is for a referendum, who is to say which way it will turn out?

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
12 Sep 2012 - 10:06 AM


Quote: , not so that our elected representatives could disregard our interests .
And who decides if they are disregarding our interests?

Simpkle - those whjo hold the interests - the electorate.

Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
12 Sep 2012 - 10:09 AM


Quote: Represent our interests - take decisions for us .... Can they not be the same thing ???


otherwise we may as well just employ a civil servant and hold referenda on every single subject.

No they cannot be the same thing. MPs can and often do make their decisions with their own future in mind (EU has many sinecures for failed politicians) whether it be personal or following party lines to gain promotion.

Second point is crazy - the decision on a referendum is far more important and transcends the minds of little mandarins in ivory towers.

Last Modified By Focus_Man at 12 Sep 2012 - 10:10 AM
triumphv8
triumphv8  6450 forum posts United Kingdom
12 Sep 2012 - 11:04 AM


Quote: the decision on a referendum is far more important and transcends the minds of little mandarins in ivory towers.

Unfortunately it relies on the little minds of the general public instead.

Last Modified By triumphv8 at 12 Sep 2012 - 11:16 AM
Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
12 Sep 2012 - 11:16 AM


Quote: the decision on a referendum is far more important and transcends the minds of little mandarins in ivory towers.

Unfortunately it relies on the liitle minds of the general public instead.

Well well what a sweeping statement - I suppose all the public YOU INCLUDED then - have small minds? Most are far more astute and are well versed in politics and therefore wish to take an interest in their destinies. Well as your mind appears to be, by your own account, small you just stand aside and let those who are interested speak their minds at a referendum.

Last Modified By Focus_Man at 12 Sep 2012 - 11:18 AM
triumphv8
triumphv8  6450 forum posts United Kingdom
12 Sep 2012 - 12:07 PM

Ignoring the so tedious forum response of taking a comment literally to twist the point :-


Quote: Most are far more astute and are well versed in politics and therefore wish to take an interest in their destinies.

You obviously mix in better circles than me, I find quite the contrary - not to the point of whether people even have an opinion that they can justify, but whether they understand a concept enough to be able to form one.

The fact that I voted in the last referendum, and almost 60% of people eligible didn't (that would be 'most' people') would seem to counter your point and support mine.

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