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What can be Done to Stop this

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StrayCat
StrayCat  1014519 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
16 Dec 2012 - 10:34 PM

I'm not going to single out the US as the only country with serious problems with the killing of its citizens by mentally deranged individuals, it happens everywhere.

Without getting into what's happening in certain parts of the world that are at perpetual war, what do you think can be done to stop, or reduce, what is happening in our society.

Japan, Norway, Canada, the UK, the US; we've all had mass killings of innocent citizens in recent years, and it seems to be escalating. I don't remember the exact figures, but the US has far more gun shops than grocery stores, and only 44% of legal gun purchases involve background checks.

Should high powered assaulght rifles which use magazines containing up to 100 bullets be on the legal list? Who, besides the military or police require such a weapon? In fact, should any automatic or semi-automatic guns be permitted in the hands of individuals for so-called protection?

The UK doesn't have anywhere near the problem with guns that exists in the US, but people still seem to find ways to kill, as they do in other countries.

If guns aren't allowed legally, it seems it's easy to get them anyway. Maybe these illegal suppliers of weapons to our citizens should be charged as accomplices and locked up for life.

This idea that, oh, I can go out and kill dozens of unarmed children, or other innocent citizens, and then kill myself and never have to answer for my actions seems to be gaining ground.

It's a situation that seems to have not one, but many causes, and it needs to be taken out of the political arena and addressed by all parts of society. The gun lobbyists have self interests that go far beyond freedom of choice; in many cases it is the almighty dollar that drives them. Politicians fear a backlash against their political future, and rightly so because the gun lobby group members number in the millions.

What's the answer, or answers????

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16 Dec 2012 - 10:34 PM

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SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 54245 forum postsSlowSong vcard England28 Constructive Critique Points
16 Dec 2012 - 10:41 PM

Nothing can be done to stop it. Guns are everywhere. Anyone can get hold of one. You can't predict people's behaviour. Life in the modern age.

paulcookphotography

Unfortunately those who want a gun to commit a crime will find a way.

However, having such an easy system to obtain a gun is only going to lead to abuse. It was said that in america measures must be put in place to stop people with mental health issues from obtaining a gun license, but from what i understand in this latest shooting, the guns actually belonged to his mother. So whether or not someone is allowed a license, guns are still available in households and not locked up in a gun club.

So while not much can be done to stop gun crime, things can be done to at least limit the availability. Guns should only be kept in secure cases at gun clubs unless they are used for work (farmers, zoos, security forces etc), where they are limited to 'on duty' use

rambler
rambler e2 Member 5468 forum postsrambler vcard England14 Constructive Critique Points
16 Dec 2012 - 11:33 PM

Mankind has elevated itself to the status of human beings but we have never left behind our animal aggression. We continue to develop and manufacture weapons of all kinds, produce video games and films that glorify violence and indoctrinate the young in the name of religion or racial and tribal bigotry. Perhaps we should consider ourselves to be the problem.

thewilliam
17 Dec 2012 - 12:18 AM

In the UK, private ownership of handguns was banned after the Dunblane massacre but gun crime seems to have increased. The only difference is that respectable citizens can't own ordinary handguns whereas few self-respecting criminals go without.

In Switzerland, where every adult male younger than 38 is and army reservist, they keep their weapons at home so that they can be rapidly called into action. Yet they have a very low rate of gun crime. In Belgium and Canada, firearms can be bought as freely as in the USA but they also have a low rate of gun crime.

The habit of the UK government seems to be to avoid tackling criminals but to punish the whole of society instead. Most murderers seem to spend just a few years in prison and they're free to kill agaim and many of them do. When I was a teenager in the 1960s, drunken youths were arrested and kept in the police cells until their Monday morning Court appearance. Justice was swift and decisive. These days the government is planning to drastically increase the price of alcoholic drinks such that the law abiding pensioner will find it difficult or impossible to afford.

GarethRobinson
GarethRobinson e2 Member 8955 forum postsGarethRobinson vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 12:29 AM

william just learn to cut back and stop drinking it by the gallon..,

Last Modified By GarethRobinson at 17 Dec 2012 - 12:29 AM
Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314996 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 3:38 AM


Quote: What can be Done to Stop this

Burn the current United States Bill of Rights, and right up a new one, removing the right to arm yourself.

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 17 Dec 2012 - 3:38 AM
StrayCat
StrayCat  1014519 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 3:47 AM

Right at this time, they estimate 300 million guns in the possession of individuals in the US. It almost seems a bit late to start there with gun control.

What about hitting the gun manufacturers, by introducing extreme controls on the manufacture and distribution of weapons? Ban the distribution of mass killing instruments to the gun shops. Limit every household to no more than one weapon for protection, and that weapon to be approved for that purpose based on a study by experts. It seems to me, about the best way to control the amounts and types of guns available to society, is to put restrictions on the manufacturers. Then put in place very strict laws for anyone breaking these laws.

779HOB
779HOB  21014 forum posts United Kingdom
17 Dec 2012 - 6:33 AM

Does the right to bear arms mean that every person in the US has the right to own a gun or does it mean that the country has the right to bear arms.


Quote: 300 million guns in the possession of individuals in the US.

This I think is non-military guns so the number is in fact higher if you take into account all the AR15 type weapons owned.


Quote: It almost seems a bit late to start there with gun control.

I was thinking this too but feel that if they banned the ownership of a gun then they could at least take those 300 million of the streets - they should know who owns them at least.

I lived in the States back in the 80s and we owned guns, it was like owning a TV and topping up on ammo was like buying milk.

Ewanneil
Ewanneil  41118 forum posts Scotland2 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 6:46 AM

I heard one American pro-gun lobbyist being interviewed after a previous massacre.

He was asked if he would now support stricter gun laws. His response was along the lines that even more people should own guns. He argued that if more did then such massacres would never happen because someone would shoot the gunman before he could complete his task. In other words he firmly believed that more people owning guns would prevent such mass killings.

The worrying thing for Americans is that this warped logic seems deeply rooted.

hobbo
hobbo e2 Member 3775 forum postshobbo vcard England2 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 8:22 AM

This is a very difficult problem to solve.......Since the last UK gun amnesty and the tightening of our gun laws, there have been more gun crimes than ever before...........AMERICA?.....The only thing that may have some effect ( eventually) if they want to keep their guns is an extremely strict GUN REGISTER that is backed by watertight law with instant and harsh sentences ......they have plenty of jails there and are not afraid to use them..........The sad thing is (as already stated above) is that the pro-gun lobby will be difficult to change........To ensure registration, EVERY SINGLE firearm should have a registration number stamped on it, very similar to the UK Hallmarks or our vehicle number plates.....that number goes with the weapon whoever owns it......any gun discovered not matched to a registered owner would have to be destroyed with the holder prosecuted and punished harshly...........Every country should also investigate any oddball in the community, a little relevant input and care or regular positive counseling might also help?

Hobbo

versa310
versa310  3310 forum posts United Kingdom
17 Dec 2012 - 8:33 AM

Back in the 1920's America introduced prohibition, but that didn't work either!

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014073 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 8:37 AM


Quote: Does the right to bear arms mean that every person in the US has the right to own a gun or does it mean that the country has the right to bear arms.

It is the people, as part of a well regulated militia:

Quote: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Apparently a similar proviso was written into the English Bill of Rights. but we moved on...

franken
franken e2 Member 113062 forum postsfranken vcard Wales4 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 9:03 AM

Guns are tools that can only be used by people. As a race we were and still are violent. You only have to sit back and take stock of the current state of the world to realise that.

It was recently suggested that for every registered gun in America there's at least two illegal ones. The guns are not the problem it's the people who are using them that are.

Automatic weapons were designed for military use and yet they are now available in the states and other countries and you have to wonder why?

As mentioned above countries like Canada, Switzerland and Belgium have very low gun crime. The mentality of people in these countries is the reason why.

Weapons are big business around the world and are supposed to be supplied to countries what would use them in defence. Criminals and terrorists don't make weapons for themselves and yet they manage to obtain them from countries that sell them and then they are sold on etc.

Any criminal or terrorist with the right money could probably obtain what they want and I can't really see that changing?

The UK is a small country and yet its currently the worlds fifth largest exporter of weapons. Strangely, it's never made public as to what weapons or their origin are found in the hands of terrorists etc?

In my opinion its way too late for any controls on gun ownership (legal or illegal) to have any effect on distressing situations like the one recently ever happening again.

People need to change really.

cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
17 Dec 2012 - 9:10 AM

The NRA are a bunch of lunatics and have so many politicians in their pockets that very little will be done. If you take the NRAs view of a very ambiguous 2nd amendment then there should be no limit on the type of weapon a citizen should be able to own so why not let them have chemical or nuclear weapons?

Assault rifles are made specifically for killing people (lots of people) and have no place outside the military yet the NRA fights tooth and nail to stop any limitations on there ownership, which is madness. The fact that many of the gun lobby are also fundi right wing Christians who think we are nearing the second coming and end times makes it even scarier.

UK Firearms related deaths per 100,000 = 0.25
USA Firearms related deaths per 100,000 = 9.0

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