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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014842 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 11:23 PM

if these "episodes" were left totally unreported they may help stop them occurring so often

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17 Dec 2012 - 11:23 PM

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strawman
strawman  1022010 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 11:31 PM

You could be correct Ade, does it make hero's of these people to a small minority and fuel the next idiot?

But it is such heart braking story how could you not cover it? Then to argue against myself do we need the saturation TV coverage. Should they not release the murderers name so he cannot become famous?

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014842 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 11:35 PM

not my theory alas, but one I heard about 3 mass murders ago on Newsnight, a professor was babbling on about the reason these things happen being the "infamy" they get after the slaughter

take away the infamy, the whole reason for killing sprees diminishes - they'd probably not even think about it, maybe just kill themselves quietly and leave the innocent alone.

I never want to hear about them again - do you? Does anyone?

If they got totally ignored would that be bad?

Worth thinking about anyway

strawman
strawman  1022010 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
17 Dec 2012 - 11:38 PM

That is worth thinking about, thanks. I can see the logic.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315614 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 12:05 AM

I just can`t see the reasoning in people living in built up well policed areas needing guns full stop.

Our Son was a member of a gun club up until he went to uni, to this day I`ve never seen a firearm.

Hungerford was a day I will never forget.

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 18 Dec 2012 - 12:06 AM
StrayCat
StrayCat e2 Member 1014915 forum postsStrayCat vcard Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 12:35 AM

I taught our children gun safety when they were young. I also taught them to use guns. However, since then we have never had guns in our home, and to my knowledge, neither have our children, who are in their 30s and 40s.

The fact of the matter is, certain people and guns don't mix; the same goes for alcohol and drugs, doesn't it.

answersonapostcard
answersonapostcard Site Moderator 1012609 forum postsanswersonapostcard vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 7:02 AM

I dont know how anyone can look at the pictures of the victims and not think that something needs to be done, and as for arming teachers -teachers are there to teach, to be positive role models for the next generation not to defend against potential gunmen, what would that in itself teach children?

The media reported this as 'the latest' gun massacre and the 'right to bear arms' is again at the head of it, but what of the 'right to life'?

I heard on the radio yesterday that for every McDonalds there are nine places you can buy a gun.

Last Modified By answersonapostcard at 18 Dec 2012 - 7:05 AM
Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73903 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 7:58 AM

It's difficult for us sitting this side of the Atlantic, to sit in judgement on how the Americans should run their domestic policies. Me for one think that we have it about right, but it still doesn't stop guns getting into the domestic population. It was only a couple of weeks ago people were getting up in arms about the injustice of imprisoning a guy in the armed forces for smuggling in a gun with a hundred rounds of ammunition (I know not the case here, but it's freighting the number of cases of someone going on a spree that's ex military).

The US was founded by settlers who required guns for their very existence, so I can see how it gets engrained.

Listening on the news, one young guy I think hit the nail on the head by saying the real problem is mental health issues, and time and money needs to be devouted to addressing that issue - as I would like to hazard a guess every single case such as this the perpetrators have serious problems in this respect.

KevSB
KevSB  101410 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 7:59 AM

[quote]I just can`t see the reasoning in people living in built up well policed areas needing guns full stop.
quote]

It is ensrined in the Culture, To try and take it away we would see more killing as those who lived by the gun defended there rights to bear arms, Im not sure there is an answer tbh, one point worth remebering is that guns are rarely made by amateurs but by states, America, Britain, Russia all sell arms across the world, Perhaps they should take some responsibility

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73903 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 8:32 AM

This makes interesting reading

Statistics, statistics and lies.

Doesn't look good in Lichtenstein, 100% of homicides by gun ... Hang on only one homicide all year!

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014170 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 9:00 AM


Quote: Back in the 1950s and 60s, when I was a younsgster and the death penalty could be imposed, murders were uncommon

And yet the murder rate has dropped dramatically since 2002 - so there seems to be absolutely no correlation between the two.

cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
18 Dec 2012 - 10:00 AM


Quote: Back in the 1950s and 60s, when I was a younsgster and the death penalty could be imposed, murders were uncommon

I'm not sure if that is true, fewer maybe but not that uncommon, and the death penalty is a total failure as a deterrent in the US.

Nick_w
Nick_w e2 Member 73903 forum postsNick_w vcard England99 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 10:40 AM


Quote: Back in the 1950s and 60s, when I was a younsgster and the death penalty could be imposed, murders were uncommon

I can't see the connection. Most of these guys (and it is guys) commit suicide to finish the spree so would never see a courtroom.

Last Modified By Nick_w at 18 Dec 2012 - 10:40 AM
jondf
jondf  82475 forum posts
18 Dec 2012 - 1:57 PM


Quote: I dont know how anyone can look at the pictures of the victims and not think that something needs to be done

Yet it's the society these atrocity commiters grow up in that produces them. There was a film on an American channel this week (the Mentalist?) which seemed to be stuffed from beginning to end with gratuitous violence involving the casual use of guns.

What's it doing to the minds of children? The person who did the shooting was a 'loner' apparently. What are the 'authorities' going to do? Round up and treat all suspected loners? A country like the US where the dollar is king and failure not an option, there's likely to be many of these 'losers' quietly festering and stoking up revenge. It's society that must address the root causes and deal with them. Limiting access to guns and rifles would be a start as would careful consideration of what constitutes 'entertainment on TV and what doesn't.

thewilliam
18 Dec 2012 - 4:01 PM

Children can get used to pretty much anything during their upbringing because most accept the norms of their society, even cannibalism and slavery or the ideals of the Nazi party.

Just as the Hitler Youth and the Jugend SS considered it quite normal and acceptable to inflict suffereing and death on people considered "undesirable" by the Nazi party, children brought up with the violence of some of the nastier video games will have an alternative standard of what is acceptable.

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