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Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314809 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 4:46 PM


Quote: Children can get used to pretty much anything during their upbringing because most accept the norms of their society

Have you got any kids of your own ?

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18 Dec 2012 - 4:46 PM

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thewilliam
18 Dec 2012 - 6:53 PM

Two daughters: the elder will be 40 next birthday.

Last Modified By thewilliam at 18 Dec 2012 - 6:53 PM
StrayCat
StrayCat  1014403 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 6:59 PM

I see a tiny bit of light at the end of the tunnel after reading this article this morning. It has to start somewhere, and admitting, in a small way, that the manufacturers of certain weapons have a share in the responsibility for some of these atrocities is a good start, imo.

thewilliam
18 Dec 2012 - 7:52 PM

I hear that a well-known manufacturer of pistols now engrave a safety notice along the barrel. It seems that they were sued by some idiot who claimed that he hadn't been warned that injury might result from pointing the weapon at somebody and pulling the trigger.

adrian_w
adrian_w e2 Member 63272 forum postsadrian_w vcard Scotland4 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 8:32 PM


Quote: he hadn't been warned that injury might result from pointing the weapon at somebody and pulling the trigger

You can kind of understand that when you see some of the kids action programs on TV. Remember The A Team? Lots of gunfire,explosions etc and yet nobody ever got hurt. Kids brought up on those sort of programs probably never realise that guns & explosives are actually very dangerous.

Umberto_Vanni
Umberto_Vanni e2 Member 9340 forum postsUmberto_Vanni vcard Scotland
18 Dec 2012 - 9:54 PM


Quote: You can kind of understand that when you see some of the kids action programs on TV. Remember The A Team? Lots of gunfire,explosions etc and yet nobody ever got hurt. Kids brought up on those sort of programs probably never realise that guns & explosives are actually very dangerous.

The A-Team was all pretty ridiculous when you think about it. Lets build a tank out of some pipes and an old tractor... don't think many people were fooled by that.

I take your point though but they are more likely to get the wrong idea today from violent video games and the glorification of violence in movies and tv programmes.

DerekL
DerekL e2 Member 9100 forum postsDerekL vcard England22 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 10:48 PM

I grew up as a child in the 50's, when programmes like "The Lone Ranger", "Hopalong Cassidy", "Rawhide", "Bonanza" etc. were on television. Westerns, showing guns being used to kill people. Toy guns were available everywhere as well. Compared to the modern dvd games available nowadays, these were like cartoons. However, it was a lot safer place to live in in those days. It is very difficult to measure the effect modern TV/Internet has on our society.

StrayCat
StrayCat  1014403 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Dec 2012 - 11:31 PM

Derek, I agree with you. I had BB guns, toy pistols and rifles, and played cops and robbers and Indians and Cowboys, and I don't know of any of my childhood friends who has become a menace to society. I believe it has something to do with the modern influences on peoples character and personalities. With most homes having two parents working to make ends meet, a lot of kids spend a lot of time on their own from a young age. It isn't the parents who become a role model, it's video game characters and movie characters. I don't know how you could ever change that, but I firmly believe parents must take a bigger role in the raising of their children.

ErictheViking
ErictheViking e2 Member 1124 forum postsErictheViking vcard Scotland102 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 12:10 AM

This thread has definitely created some interesting discussion and thoughts regarding why this happened and how it can be prevented.

I commented earlier in the thread that society, which we have all had a hand in creating, in some small way needs to take some of the responsibility for this and all the other similar tragedies around the world (UK as well). We have to start to end the availability of weapons specifically designed for War and killing people.

In your linked report StrayCat it quotes Lanza as using a civilian version of a US army assault rifle and its only available now because the US government stopped caring and let the law laps what message is that sending to our children the adults of the next generation?

I'm not someone who wants to stop hunting and owning guns for a legitimate purpose with appropriate licensing, but lets give guns the respect they should have and if ammunition is freely available in supermarkets lets control it better .. we do it with cigarettes why not with something that will kill 100% of the time.

We have learned through experience that banning weapons doesn’t really work so instead lets teach people what really happens with guns and why they need to be respected and not thought of as a right of society.

When I served in the RAF they showed us a film on the effects of a rifle wound on the human body. Those images stuck with me you don't forget a bullet making a 1/2" hole at the front and leaving through a 4" hole at the back.

Eric

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314809 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 1:15 AM


Quote: The A-Team was all pretty ridiculous when you think about it. Lets build a tank out of some pipes and an old tractor... don't think many people were fooled by that

Smile Smile

You were saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgg_jtDQyyY

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110152 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 6:55 AM

This was horrendous but I do believe that, as has been already said, much of the problem with society and media not gun ownerships per se.

I found this interesting:


Quote: Under Swiss law, all adult males who have received training in the Swiss armed forces are reservists who are required under law to keep their official firearms at home. According to the gun law of 1999 (larm99), automatic weapons like the Swiss army assault rifle have to be stocked separately of the bolt, which has to be in a locked place.

Switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, and one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.[23] However in 2011, Swiss voters overwhelmingly defeated tighter controls that would have required all guns (including privately owned guns) to be kept in government arsenals.


779HOB
779HOB  2998 forum posts United Kingdom
19 Dec 2012 - 7:25 AM


Quote: the problem with society and media not gun ownerships per se.

This is true of course, it takes someone to pull the trigger, but this is the standard line given by the NRA. It's not guns that kill people but people that kill people. In pure logic this is true. On this logic you could argue the legalisation of crack cocaine. Free will allows us not to smoke a rock or pull a trigger. Sometimes you need a law to protect us from our own temptations.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110152 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 7:44 AM

Focused, you haven't addressed the point about the comparison between the Swiss and US situation, there clearly have to be cultural differences behind this.

Before going too far down your line of reasoning consider the fact that Car owners kill more people each year than gun owners ever will, a few deliberately, the majority through carelessness or incompetence.

Its estimated that there are around 800,00+ unlicensed drivers on the road in the UK so clearly legal controls don't work, perhaps we should ban cars ownership as well?

Please note that although I used to game and target shoot as a youngster I do not nor ever have felt the need to own a gun.

I just get worried by some of the more strident noises that follow such horrendous murders.

StrayCat
StrayCat  1014403 forum posts Canada2 Constructive Critique Points
19 Dec 2012 - 7:54 AM

Brian, I take your point, but I believe that there will finally be something done in the US. This latest one struck a chord with everyone, and even the NRA is taking a big step back from this one. One thing I would like to see, is that all guns except a few, maybe even just stun guns, or guns that fire rubber bullets, be banned to the public. Ban them from the gunshops also, and throw the book at anybody who breaks those laws. If a person other than officials who have approval are caught with a weapon in there possession, charge them, and charge the manufacturer of that weapon, no matter which country they operate from.

We'll talk about cars and cocaine later, right now we have an agenda.

Last Modified By StrayCat at 19 Dec 2012 - 7:55 AM
779HOB
779HOB  2998 forum posts United Kingdom
19 Dec 2012 - 8:06 AM


Quote: you haven't addressed the point about the comparison between the Swiss and US situation, there clearly have to be cultural differences behind this.

Sorry, yes without doubt there are cultural differences, of course and those differences are one of the main reasons I moved back here and have no wish to even visit the States again. I don't know how you try to change a culture, or if indeed you should. But I do think you should try to change the laws to protect people from themselves. The only reason people feel the need to own a gun in the States is because the guy next door owns one and he might shoot you. Ironically the only person I know who was killed in the States was beaten to death in his taxi by a druggie with a bat.

The Swiss seem to have got something right judging by your post. What are you suggesting by comparing the two? That it's ok to have free gun ownership because it's down to cultural differences.

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