Login or Join Now

Upload your photos, chat, win prizes and much more

Username:
Password:
Remember Me

Can't Access your Account?

New to ePHOTOzine? Join ePHOTOzine for free!

Like 0

What is the purpose of voting on shots?

Join Now

Join ePHOTOzine, the friendliest photography community.

Upload photos, chat with photographers, win prizes and much more for free!

New PortraitPro 12 SALE + 10% OFF code EPZROS814
User_Removed
14 Nov 2012 - 11:58 AM


Quote: And as some one who uses comments/votes as one of the ways to improve my own photos I'd appreciate that distinction in the feedback so I can separate what is just an appreciative 'like' from a genuine 'this is good'.

The more I think about this (I mean the whole subject, not just your comment) the more I'm convinced that the whole click-vote-fave thing is a waste of time. We all want to improve our photography. Although I consider myself a 'good' photographer, I am still desperate to improve, and I will be until the day I die. You do not improve by getting clicks. It just ain't possible. You need constructive comments. I'm not going to remember in three months time that I got 25 votes for a shot I did of a Lily, but if I were taking a shot of another Lily in three months time I would remember some constructive comment that was made about the composition, and I would probably alter my new shot in order to improve it.

I know there a lot of starter/intermediate photographers on here, and I know that a lot of people are not as articulate as others, but everyone is capable of expressing an opinion, be it a technical one or an emotional one. You don't need to be a great photographer and wordsmith to say in basic terms what you like and don't like about a shot. You shouldn't feel that you can't be critical about other people's shots. What else is the point of posting them here? Just to look at some pretty pictures perhaps? If you want to do that you can see much prettier shots elsewhere. Surely the main advantage of posting on a site such as this is that you improve by getting decent feedback from a range of people. Not just 'clicks.

well yes that would be ideal but it seems that there is a lot of resistance to commenting and generally the ratio of comments to votes isn't great and the ratio of 'its nice' to something actually useful is even lower.

generally the response to this when I've brought it up has been to use the critique section but that isn't always what you want or need. I genuinely view using that as being for when I really need help to figure something out and not to just use it as a general feedback. Surely it shouldn't be used for general feedback of the kind that helps you improve on your own. Given that it is restricted to one per week for non-paying members means that it is a resource intensive exercise and should really only be used for when you need serious help.

It would just be better if there was a culture of commenting like you suggest, but for whatever reason (s) there just doesn't seem to be, which is kind of sad, and leaves you needing to try to extrapolate as much as you can from the voting system which people do seem to use.

Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links 
14 Nov 2012 - 11:58 AM

Join ePHOTOzine for free and remove these adverts.

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318442 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:01 PM

It would just be better if there was a culture of commenting like you suggest, but for whatever reason (s) there just doesn't seem to be
Quote:

The facilities are there. Make it happen. Encourage (without bullying) others to do the same. Ask questions when you post photos. Some have created groups for such activity.

ringyneck
ringyneck  7308 forum posts United Kingdom18 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:03 PM


Quote: And as some one who uses comments/votes as one of the ways to improve my own photos I'd appreciate that distinction in the feedback so I can separate what is just an appreciative 'like' from a genuine 'this is good'.

The more I think about this (I mean the whole subject, not just your comment) the more I'm convinced that the whole click-vote-fave thing is a waste of time. We all want to improve our photography. Although I consider myself a 'good' photographer, I am still desperate to improve, and I will be until the day I die. You do not improve by getting clicks. It just ain't possible. You need constructive comments. I'm not going to remember in three months time that I got 25 votes for a shot I did of a Lily, but if I were taking a shot of another Lily in three months time I would remember some constructive comment that was made about the composition, and I would probably alter my new shot in order to improve it.

I know there a lot of starter/intermediate photographers on here, and I know that a lot of people are not as articulate as others, but everyone is capable of expressing an opinion, be it a technical one or an emotional one. You don't need to be a great photographer and wordsmith to say in basic terms what you like and don't like about a shot. You shouldn't feel that you can't be critical about other people's shots. What else is the point of posting them here? Just to look at some pretty pictures perhaps? If you want to do that you can see much prettier shots elsewhere. Surely the main advantage of posting on a site such as this is that you improve by getting decent feedback from a range of people. Not just 'clicks.

Started reading this thread and it was going nowhere but it came back to the top so viewed it to see what was added..... and came up with this...

1. Don't put pics in the main Gallery
2. Put pics in the Critique gallery.
As was said earlier this is a very old topic and new members think it's not.
Keith

MacroMeister
14 Nov 2012 - 12:05 PM


Quote: I couldn't agree with MacroMeister more!

Well, brother, you get my vote from now onWink


Quote: Another way of getting votes is the "sympathy vote" - a personal problem, ilness, hospital, family problem etc. where members will say "Hope you are feeling much better now" . . . . vote!

I didn't want to mention that, but as you have, I have to agree in full. There are also the people who write in the photo description (which is supposed to be about the shot) some personal details of something that is going on in their lives, and then they gradually get around to the shot. I really do not want to read it. I'm not interested. It seems to me a way of them trying to draw you in, to make you feel connected, so you will like their shot more. I'm paraphrasing, but saying things such as "HI, how are you all today, yesterday John and I were having a hard time of things..." seems pointless

keithh
keithh e2 Member 1022911 forum postskeithh vcard Wallis and Futuna31 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:09 PM


Quote: seems pointless....

...to you.

People use this site in so many ways - I don't always like or agree with it but I would defend their right to do so.....and for you to use it as you see fit.

User_Removed
14 Nov 2012 - 12:10 PM


Quote: Started reading this thread and it was going nowhere but it came back to the top so viewed it to see what was added..... and came up with this...

1. Don't put pics in the main Gallery
2. Put pics in the Critique gallery.
As was said earlier this is a very old topic and new members think it's not.
Keith

So your only solution is that we must flood the critique section with photos that we don't really need indepth critique on to get the kind of feedback the members should be giving? I'm guessing you are not a member of the critique team and won't have to deal with the extra work.

Last Modified By User_Removed at 14 Nov 2012 - 12:10 PM
User_Removed
14 Nov 2012 - 12:12 PM


Quote: The facilities are there. Make it happen. Encourage (without bullying) others to do the same. Ask questions when you post photos. Some have created groups for such activity.

I do comment on photos in the way I would like others to comment, but I can't change the entire ethos of the members by myself with the limited time I have. There has to be support and encouragement and education from the EPZ team as well to encourage commenting.

Last Modified By User_Removed at 14 Nov 2012 - 12:14 PM
ringyneck
ringyneck  7308 forum posts United Kingdom18 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:14 PM

So are we to ban all people who do these personal comments.
I think you need to start a section/group that just puts up photos and excludes everything else that you do not like......it is these "comment" that make epz an all round good site.
Keith

User_Removed
14 Nov 2012 - 12:17 PM


Quote: I couldn't agree with MacroMeister more!
Well, brother, you get my vote from now onWink

Another way of getting votes is the "sympathy vote" - a personal problem, ilness, hospital, family problem etc. where members will say "Hope you are feeling much better now" . . . . vote!
I didn't want to mention that, but as you have, I have to agree in full. There are also the people who write in the photo description (which is supposed to be about the shot) some personal details of something that is going on in their lives, and then they gradually get around to the shot. I really do not want to read it. I'm not interested. It seems to me a way of them trying to draw you in, to make you feel connected, so you will like their shot more. I'm paraphrasing, but saying things such as "HI, how are you all today, yesterday John and I were having a hard time of things..." seems pointless

Well this for the people who use the site more socially and there is nothing wrong with that .. they just clearly fall into the other category of users - you know the one's who click on their friend's pics - hence my suggestion of a system to please 'em both by separating likes and votes but as that has been tried and failed .. I'm out of ideas.

I'd be curious to find out how long it was tried for and how much education went with it and if it was easier to find out what was what than is currently the case with the VS Mode .... it is seriously neither easy nor intuitive to find out how features work on this site.

MacroMeister
14 Nov 2012 - 12:20 PM


Quote:
It would just be better if there was a culture of commenting like you suggest, but for whatever reason (s) there just doesn't seem to be, which is kind of sad, and leaves you needing to try to extrapolate as much as you can from the voting system which people do seem to use.

The word 'comment, according to the Dictionary.com site is

Quote: a remark, observation, or criticism: a comment about the weather.

The bold type is mine. Comment does not have to be just nice comments such as 'great shot' or even the dreaded 'WOW!'. A lot of sites have facilities to 'invite' more serious criticism where it is wanted, but frankly I have always ignored that. And I ignore it here too. If a shot is good then I say so, and I say why. If you look at my comments this morning you will see that. I do the same if I think it has room for improvement. It's only a subjective opinion, I know, and others may disagree, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that the poster may find it useful, may incorporate it into what they do in future, and in turn he/she may say something useful about one of my shots.

There is nothing at all wrong with reciprocity, so long as it's 'you comment/criticise mine and I'll do the same for you' rather than you 'vote for me and I'll vote for you' without any comment.

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014128 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:23 PM


Quote: I'd be curious to find out how long it was tried for and how much education went with it and if it was easier to find out what was what than is currently the case with the VS Mode

It was put on the screens, Pete explained it, people moaned...
Personally I don't see the need for a 2 tier system. if I like a pic I vote on it..simples.
If I really like it I give it a user award.
Why would I vote on stuff I don't like ?

Quote:

There is nothing at all wrong with reciprocity, so long as it's 'you comment/criticise mine and I'll do the same for you' rather than you 'vote for me and I'll vote for you' without any comment.

AFAICS there is nothing stopping you using the site that way.

Last Modified By lobsterboy at 14 Nov 2012 - 12:25 PM
MacroMeister
14 Nov 2012 - 12:26 PM


Quote:
People use this site in so many ways - I don't always like or agree with it but I would defend their right to do so.....and for you to use it as you see fit.

I don't disagree with that. But if all of the good photographers here, and the members who offer good critique all upped and left because they didn't want to be in a social-media-Facebook-like site, then where would that leave this site? A minor version of Facebook?

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318442 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:26 PM

Most of the deep issues on this site are caused by people who just cannot let others use the site in the way they like.
As I said to someone recently, quoted to save rewriting :

Quote: We seem to get the occasional strong flare ups with some people not liking how a few other people use the site. Usually they learn to understand that there are differences and either accept or avoid, or they take it upon themselves to try and force their way by bullying, started vigilant style activities etc and in the end a few get banned. The flare ups always centre around nude/glamour tolerance, religious / political opinion or clickers/cliques.
Our ideal scenario, just like with world peace, is if people can accept differences. And providing everyone stays within the law (or our case T&Cs) we will have an ideal scenario.

Ade_Osman
Ade_Osman e2 Member 114509 forum postsAde_Osman vcard England36 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:31 PM

If you don't like the site and what goes on within it, go find somewhere that's more suited to your needs.......It's not rocket science.

Ade Tongue

MacroMeister
14 Nov 2012 - 12:31 PM


Quote:
There is nothing at all wrong with reciprocity, so long as it's 'you comment/criticise mine and I'll do the same for you' rather than you 'vote for me and I'll vote for you' without any comment.

AFAICS there is nothing stopping you using the site that way.

Perhaps you could have a click button to squirt in a bit of standard text when you make a constructive comment along the lines of... "I have offered you criticism, in a polite and constructive way. I hope you find it useful and well intended. Please feel free to make similar criticism on my own work, in a similar manner"

It would be optional, would encourage people to critique more, and anyone who abused it (ie. clicked it when they just said 'great shot') could be banned and made to use a Nikon for the rest of their miserable days. Wink

Add a Comment

You must be a member to leave a comment

Username:
Password:
Remember me:
Un-tick this box if you want to login each time you visit.