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keithh
keithh  1022778 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:33 PM


Quote: I don't disagree with that. But if all of the good photographers here, and the members who offer good critique all upped and left because they didn't want to be in a social-media-Facebook-like site, then where would that leave this site?

That rather assumes that all the 'good photographers' use the site in the way that you want it to be used.

It's not the case.

A couple of photographers who were regulars on this site but not any longer pointed me to another site with the words "You don't get the silly voting and banal praise, like you do on EPZ."

I looked - and they were wrong - it was very much the same because the members were human.

Last Modified By keithh at 14 Nov 2012 - 12:33 PM
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14 Nov 2012 - 12:33 PM

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Tooth
Tooth  95772 forum posts Ireland227 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:36 PM

@Macromeister


Quote: The more I think about this (I mean the whole subject, not just your comment) the more I'm convinced that the whole click-vote-fave thing is a waste of time.

with repect you've been a member of the site for two weeks, and you're coming to the conclusion that part of it is a waste of time. Well, either ignore the parts you don't like and work around them, or move along and good look in your search for a site that has everything you want. That way you won't have wasted too much time

There is indeed a Critique Gallery for those who want constructive and helpful comments only, but it shouldn't just be used as a way of avoiding votes - if you think votes are pointless, turn them off.

Stephen

PS I do hope yiou stck around though Smile

lobsterboy
lobsterboy Site Moderator 1014014 forum postslobsterboy vcard United Kingdom13 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:38 PM


Quote: Perhaps you could have a click button to squirt in a bit of standard text when you make a constructive comment along the lines of... "I have offered you criticism, in a polite and constructive way. I hope you find it useful and well intended. Please feel free to make similar criticism on my own work, in a similar manner"

nothing stopping you pasting it at the end of all your comments - why not try it. you could quickly create your own critique clique Smile

keithh
keithh  1022778 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 12:40 PM


Quote: you could quickly create your own critique clique

hate it when somone takes the words right out of your mouth.
Wink

MacroMeister
14 Nov 2012 - 12:42 PM


Quote: Perhaps you could have a click button to squirt in a bit of standard text when you make a constructive comment along the lines of... "I have offered you criticism, in a polite and constructive way. I hope you find it useful and well intended. Please feel free to make similar criticism on my own work, in a similar manner"

nothing stopping you pasting it at the end of all your comments - why not try it. you could quickly create your own critique clique Smile

Thanks, I will do that.

User_Removed
14 Nov 2012 - 12:54 PM


Quote: There is nothing at all wrong with reciprocity, so long as it's 'you comment/criticise mine and I'll do the same for you' rather than you 'vote for me and I'll vote for you' without any comment.

AFAICS there is nothing stopping you using the site that way.

Perhaps you could have a click button to squirt in a bit of standard text when you make a constructive comment along the lines of... "I have offered you criticism, in a polite and constructive way. I hope you find it useful and well intended. Please feel free to make similar criticism on my own work, in a similar manner"

It would be optional, would encourage people to critique more, and anyone who abused it (ie. clicked it when they just said 'great shot') could be banned and made to use a Nikon for the rest of their miserable days. Wink

hey now that's not a bad idea!!

Re nikon ... clearly you use a canon (shame) WinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWink TongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongue

User_Removed
14 Nov 2012 - 12:56 PM

you know what we could use more of ... smileys!! why do we only have 5 when there are so many more ways to visually express yourself. This is a photography site ie visual medium. ... we see in pictures than most people do Smile

MacroMeister
14 Nov 2012 - 1:02 PM


Quote:
Re nikon ... clearly you use a canon (shame) WinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWink TongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongueTongue

Five-dee-merc-too, but I have a Panasonic G3 as well. I prefer the Panasonic. Wink

Last Modified By MacroMeister at 14 Nov 2012 - 1:02 PM
Jestertheclown
14 Nov 2012 - 1:06 PM


Quote: you could quickly create your own critique clique

There really was one of those a little while ago.
The first, last and only time I posted a coment on a member's image in there, the member, who wouldn't recognise constructive critique if it bit them, complained and the image, comments and my critique all got taken down.

MacroMeister
14 Nov 2012 - 1:11 PM


Quote: you could quickly create your own critique clique
There really was one of those a little while ago.
The first, last and only time I posted a coment on a member's image in there, the member, who wouldn't recognise constructive critique if it bit them, complained and the image, comments and my critique all got taken down.

So... we are back to being a social media site are we?Wink

This thread is getting more response than I anticipated. I just want to repeat that I think you can't improve your photography by just getting votes. You need constructive comment/criticism. Is there anyone here who does not want to improve their photography? Hands up please...

Last Modified By MacroMeister at 14 Nov 2012 - 1:12 PM
Ade_Osman
Ade_Osman e2 Member 114484 forum postsAde_Osman vcard England36 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 1:18 PM


Quote: There really was one of those a little while ago.
The first, last and only time I posted a coment on a member's image in there, the member, who wouldn't recognise constructive critique if it bit them, complained and the image, comments and my critique all got taken down.


And therein lies the problem of leaving good honest critique regardless of whether it was constructive or not! I've never been bothered by bad critique myself, just so long as it's honest and constructive, I'm too thick skinned to really be bothered. But there are an awful lot of folk that are and this isn't a bash at the pro's or semi-pro's but in my experience they can sometimes seem to take honest criticism the worst.....Or is that just me?

AdeSmile

Tooth
Tooth  95772 forum posts Ireland227 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 1:20 PM

@ Jester

Assuming you mean the Critique Gallery that's really not the way it is and with my Critque Team hat on I can't let that stand as a general statement. I presume you mean the member took down the photo and your critique went with it - well that's their prerogative but it's not a fair reflection of the Critique Gallery.

true there have been a few attempts at "critique cliques" in the CG, but the vetting of comments by the Critique Team before they are given a "good critique" flag tends to suppress this.

It does lead to a more general point though...it's human nature to form cliques, and you'd be amazed at the cliques somepeople want to form. There's no point spending half of your life getting angry about them - just get on with the way you want to do things yourself.

Real example..I use the local leisure centre to swim three or four times a week. It's by far the best in town with best rates and facilities. There's always a bunch of macho prats in it who just keep prattling on about sporty this and sporty that, but I just want to get in and swim, and have the odd chat with someone I know or omeone who's not obsessed with the world of sport.

So do I get on with it and have my swim and ignore the sporties (well I have for four years) or do I go to the next leisure centre and pay more..
.
.... only to find there's another bunch of macho prats in it who just keep prattling on about sporty this and sporty that.....

Last Modified By Tooth at 14 Nov 2012 - 1:40 PM
keithh
keithh  1022778 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 1:21 PM

I
Quote: s there anyone here who does not want to improve their photography? Hands up please...

Where's the hands up smiley? I have no desire to improve my photography. At my age I have simply reached a level that must be it. I might try different techniques etc but otherwise....hands up.

Jestertheclown
14 Nov 2012 - 1:39 PM


Quote: Assuming you mean the Critique Gallery that's really not the way it is and with my Critque Team hat on I can't let that stand as a general statement.

Hi Stephen,
No, it was nothing at all to do with the critique gallery, with which I was also quite involved but have recently abandoned, for perfectly sound reasons which I won't be able to share on here.
This was a group, which started up, the blurb saying that they were looking for members to join it, who'd welcome 'strong criticism.'
It was actually a click clique who just used it as a kind of 'sub-site' in which to fawn over each others' images.
The mistake that I made was that I actually offered some proper critique on an image, which, to be fair wasn't bad but let's say, had some room for improvement.

Tooth
Tooth  95772 forum posts Ireland227 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2012 - 1:45 PM

Sorry Jester, it was th way you worded it I assumed you meant the CG, which I felt duty bound to defend, and which does have some checks and balancs to minimise cliquey behaviour.

as for the group you mention I'm sure peolple can find it if they want to - i have an inkling myself...

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