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What is wrong with Pentax?

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strawman
strawman  1021997 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2007 - 3:33 PM


Quote: BTW, I don't think that in-body IS is inferior to in-lens IS. Nobody has proved this yet - it's just conjecture.

It has been proven in a few back to back tests.

1 you do not see the IS at work in the viewfinder
2 The longer the lens focal length the less well it works.
3 In back to back tests the lenses with IS tend to do at least as well as their manufacturer claim while the in-camera ones have not ;-(
4 From a reliability and engineering point of view I would rather be moving a lens element on a gimbal that a sensor will all those electrical connections etc.

But still it is better than nothing.

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26 Sep 2007 - 3:33 PM

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aftertherain
26 Sep 2007 - 5:50 PM

Even better value is the Samsung GX10 which is exactly the same as the Pentax K10D, but cheaper again!
It's a cracking camera to use, this photo in my pf was taken with it using the standard lens.
I'd match the picture quality against my D200 any day.

Last Modified By aftertherain at 26 Sep 2007 - 5:51 PM
KenTaylor
KenTaylor e2 Member 92971 forum postsKenTaylor vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2007 - 6:28 PM


Quote: exactly the same as the Pentax K10D,

Badged copy perhaps but with different firmware.
Ken

Eli_Pascall-Willis

I bought a pentax k10d, at the focus exhibition. One of the main reasons I chose it was I already had one lens that would fit, lens choice should always be top priority.
In terms of quality I have been more than pleased with the results, controls are easy and manageble, the colours are excellent and it feels like a sturdy film camera.
As mentioned earlier they are fairly new to the digital manufacture of SLR's, thus have to compete with the firmly established Nikon and Canon. Overall, It's a cracking camera so anyone looking to get one don't let the drop in price deter you
Allthough only a few, all the images in my portfolio are taken with a K10d

Last Modified By Eli_Pascall-Willis at 26 Sep 2007 - 7:02 PM
c_evans99
c_evans99  107013 forum posts Wales1 Constructive Critique Points
26 Sep 2007 - 9:27 PM

Are the sales that disappointing? I remember in the eighties that magazines sneered at anything not Canon or Nikon, but the ME-Super sold by the shipload... a quick search through eBay will show how many have been in use these last twenty odd years... tho probably not by 'serious photographers'.

KGB4
KGB4  1242 forum posts United States
4 Oct 2007 - 3:23 AM

to ancer the OP's ????? NOTHING lol Smile well there marking dep is BAD lol and they stopped making there FA* lenes GRRRRRRRR

Last Modified By KGB4 at 4 Oct 2007 - 3:27 AM
steve_p
steve_p  81089 forum posts England
6 Oct 2007 - 8:49 AM

I had an ME super for years, and only sold it when I was clearing out my storage cupboard. I tried out a film in it and it worked perfectly.
When i was lookeing for a DSLR I considered the current model at that time 2yrs ago, but I was sold a Canon 350D which didn feel quite so comfortable- but Canon or Nikon was the "way to go".
I have now got a Canon 30D, but still wonder if the Pentax would have been as good.
Incidentally, when I had the ME Super I was looked down on at my Camera club because it was not a Canon or Nikon- but I still won one or two competitions!

Stuarty
Stuarty  9122 forum posts England
7 Oct 2007 - 7:25 PM

As a K10D owner - with modest Sigma 17 -70 and 70 -300 lenses - there is nothing wrong with Pentax. Nothing wrong with Canon and Nikon either of course. Thought long and hard about the D80, rejected the 400D for 'feel', couldn't afford the more expensive Canons, was (and still am) nervous about Pentax going belly up, but it's a lovely camera. The 'waterproofing' stood me in good stead when it got drenched in seawater in an inflatable and the 'IS' (shake reduction in Pentax-speak) works well - I got a tolerable 6X4 print of a badger through a double glazed window after dark, crouched down handheld at 1/10sec, f4.5, 70mm with the 17 -70, at ISO1600. (The neighbour's patio was lit, as was the room I was in) Wild horses wouldn't persuade me to upload it, but it's servicable. Reminds me I should upload more shots.

Would I buy one now? Given that my first 4 shots to Alamy passed QC first time - and the K10D is supposed to be 'soft' - and how robust it has been bombing around in inflatables in the Arctic (cold and wet!), the answer is yes. The only lingering doubt is whether Pentax can survive the Canon/Nikon stranglehold and the threats from Sony and perhaps Sigma.
To anyone contemplating buying in this part of the market, who does not have a significant investment in lenses, the K10D is technically a contender , if not winner.
Stuart

KGB4
KGB4  1242 forum posts United States
7 Oct 2007 - 9:39 PM

i use the K100D and the K10D i mostly shoot photoj and both cameras stand up to what i put them threw rather good. i do not plan to up graded if a new body comes out i am going to wate a whill. i have had no problems with image quality at all people say the K10D is soft i have not seen it my self. i have had no problems with AF at night and i shoot a lot at night. the K100D works best at night and the K10D is grate for sports.

Thincat
Thincat  7616 forum posts
8 Oct 2007 - 3:45 PM


Quote:
1 you do not see the IS at work in the viewfinder


That's not a disadvantage. I think it's better on a still camera for it to work this way - video cameras and binoculars are a different matter.


Quote:
2 The longer the lens focal length the less well it works.
3 In back to back tests the lenses with IS tend to do at least as well as their manufacturer claim while the in-camera ones have not ;-(


Like I said , that's conjecture - mainly from Canon reviewers, I might add. It's based on the misapprehension that, because the stabilisation movements for telephoto lenses are greater, therefore it won't work with in-body stabilisation. It forgets that the algorithm knows the lens focal length and makes appropriate adjustments.

FYI, there's no scientific test for determining the efficiency of IS, so that's why I say it's conjecture - and that's why you're talking rubbish. Show me the "back to back" tests.


Quote:
4 From a reliability and engineering point of view I would rather be moving a lens element on a gimbal that a sensor will all those electrical connections etc.


More nonsense. Your lenses are vastly expensive and will probably never be replaced. Placing clever IS technology in them, which will go out of date very rapidly (BTW what version of IS is Canon on?) is not the best idea. The throw-away bit of the DSLR system is the camera body, or have you not realised this yet. Also, when it goes wrong, who can repair it?

In camera IS is the best and I'm fully aware that you won't recognise this until Canon/Nikon adopt it - about 2009 I'd guess.

mdpontin
mdpontin  106016 forum posts Scotland
8 Oct 2007 - 4:04 PM


Quote: I remember in the eighties that magazines sneered at anything not Canon or Nikon, but the ME-Super sold by the shipload

Yes, I remember that too! I seem to recall that the up/down push-button shutter speed controls on the ME Super were derided as 'fiddly', but were the acclaimed on the Canon T70. I loved my ME Super. I only got rid of it because I...er...broke it by smashing it into a wall. Accidentally, of course!

Doug

strawman
strawman  1021997 forum posts United Kingdom16 Constructive Critique Points
8 Oct 2007 - 4:43 PM

Jabberwok stop being such a fan boy and stop to think. Also try not to insult if you wish to debate, or if you do check you have facts not emotion.

As a Canon user (a decision made before Pentax started to offer dSLRs and yes I will probably rot in hell) I posted this to say what excellent value the K10D is, and express my surprise more are not bought. My opinion was the K10D offers a very good camera for not much above entry camera prices.

Taking your points
1 IS being seen in action helps as it allows more accurate framing. Try it and see.

2 Performance, I have seen it stated in all the tests, be it PM or DPREVIEW etc, they cannot all be anti Pentax and Canon users, step away from the paranoia. As I said, it is a lot better than no IS, but there is enough evidence and I can see there may be good technical reasons why in lens IS is superior but it costs more. (Think of having to accelerate the sensor mass at ever increasing velocity as the focal length increases)


Quote: FYI, there's no scientific test for determining the efficiency of IS

Might I suggest a rate or slip table with the camera set on a remote release it would be a simple matter to test for varying levels of movement and the level of compensation achieved. Send me your camera and lenses and I can have the test done.

Reliability. I have worked on electronics long enough to know that whilst silicon withstands vibration very well, wirebonds and flexis can be hell. I know I have broken a few. Then you have to have a mechanism with very little play that can accelerate the sensor assembly rapidly, with all its interconnects, and what those things hate, from a reliability point of view is movement. Early Minolta's with IS had a bit of a rough ride.

But to return to my main point, the K10D represents in my opinion better value for money than the equivalent Canon and Nikon models, and if I did not have some decent lenses I would be happily walking out of the shop with one.

Last Modified By strawman at 8 Oct 2007 - 4:44 PM
Just Jas
Just Jas  1225727 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
8 Oct 2007 - 5:18 PM

Er...just hold a Pentax.....!

IanA
IanA  103048 forum posts England12 Constructive Critique Points
8 Oct 2007 - 5:45 PM


Quote: Er...just hold a Pentax.....!

Right Jas, I've got a K10D in one hand and a D200 in the other! (The one in my left hand feels a little strange, but that could be because I'm not left handed!)

What now? Wink Wink

Ian

keith selmes
8 Oct 2007 - 5:56 PM


Quote: The throw-away bit of the DSLR system is the camera body

Actually, its the lens cap, and I didn't even mean to do that.

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