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What the hell is the USA up to now...

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Westers
Westers  93905 forum posts Burkina Faso1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2007 - 4:41 PM

Why?

Why on earth do they need to worry about Russia - the Cold war has been over for 15 years or so.

Just how many fights can the US pick? I'm not normally anit America, but the sooner Bush goes from office the better.

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27 Apr 2007 - 4:41 PM

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Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318432 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2007 - 4:44 PM

Early warning. As we are a worldwide site and many of our friends are from the US can we keep this sensible please or I will delete.

Helpful Post! This post was flagged as helpful
marcoz
marcoz  771 forum posts
27 Apr 2007 - 4:45 PM

bush is a moron i think something very bad is going to happen to america and there is enough blood on bush's hands already,

america need to stand up and get this man out !!!!

ZenTog
ZenTog  127875 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2007 - 4:46 PM

I think anti missile defences should be allowed by all countries, anti missiles dont destroy towns and countries only other missiles.

dont really think Russia is a real threat now days, I would be more worried about North Korea and Iran, very unstable leaders running such countries is more of a worry

Last Modified By Dave at 27 Apr 2007 - 4:46 PM
cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
27 Apr 2007 - 4:58 PM


Quote: I think anti missile defences should be allowed by all countries, anti missiles dont destroy towns and countries only other missiles.

The trouble is they can't stop everything, so the tactic to beat them is to hit you with more missiles, so its just another form of escalation.

Krakman
Krakman  73615 forum posts Scotland
27 Apr 2007 - 5:07 PM

I don't know the tehnical details about why anti-missile defence is needed in those countries, but...

remember the Maginot Line? The French built one of the most amazing fortifications Europe has ever seen to defend itself against invasion from Germany. It truly was a work of art, and used all the latest tricks of the time to make it virtually impregnable to the German army.

The only problem was - for diplomatic reasons the French didn't build it along the Belgian frontier. When the Germans invaded France, they very undiplomatically just invaded through Belgium (remember the Battle of Mons?) and avoided the Maginot Line completely. Very unsporting, and a tremendous waste of perfectly good concrete Sad

There must be a moral in there somewhere.

Last Modified By Dave at 27 Apr 2007 - 5:08 PM
User_Removed
27 Apr 2007 - 5:23 PM

Bush is out next year. Hilary Clinton will be elected - and sense will return.

Thank God.

Westers
Westers  93905 forum posts Burkina Faso1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2007 - 5:32 PM


Quote: dont really think Russia is a real threat now days, I would be more worried about North Korea and Iran, very unstable leaders running such countries is more of a worry

That's my point, Paul. Why Russia? It's not like they're the bad guys anymore.

It's just one of those world events that you think WTF? Why on earth shift attention to Russia after 15 years of mutual disarming and a general westernising of the former Soviet Union.

If they'd looked at missile defences for North Korea or Iran then that would make sense because of recent global events. But Russia?? Out of left field, (to coin a US phrase) that one.

Westers
Westers  93905 forum posts Burkina Faso1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2007 - 5:46 PM

Ah, a little more research, (I've been on hols for a while so out of touch with world events. Never was one for buying English papers whilst abroad) looks like it's due to concerns over energy supplies from Russia and bad relations between Russia and Europe.

Oh joy. Sad

cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
27 Apr 2007 - 5:53 PM

Of cause the real reason is to line the pockets of the defence industry, billions of $'s to be made on a scheme that won't get used, or more likely never delivered in a workable form.

Westers
Westers  93905 forum posts Burkina Faso1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2007 - 6:11 PM

Mind you, it's more a scheme to stop potential attacks (accidental or otherwise) on a scale much less than Russia could still launch.

Based around the developments with rogue states, such as North Korea and Iran, then it's a prudent policy to defend against a potential lunatic attack. On the flip side of that, if the US stopped p***ing off elements of the world then they'd not have to develop this.

And the defence industry helps the rest of the global economy evolve - money in their pockets means jobs and associated indutries that supply components.

Skodster
Skodster  8902 forum posts Ireland
27 Apr 2007 - 6:16 PM


Quote: looks like it's due to concerns over energy supplies from Russia and bad relations between Russia and Europe.

I have always wondered how much faith it would take to trust our power supplies to a semi corrupt nation such as Russia. I think that if anyone is guilty of misconduct, it's our leaders and their over emphasized desire to maximise profit and reduce costs.

It's interesting that there is now a plan to re-establish coal mining in Britain and to start generating our own power once again. It has amazed me that the population of the UK realised this before the last mines were closed down and the ruling classes did not!

So, demonise and threaten Russia because they've got us by the 'short and curlies' on power?

No! - Get rid of short sighted politicians!

Good thread Westers!

Westers
Westers  93905 forum posts Burkina Faso1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2007 - 6:37 PM

I'd actually say it's industry that is guilty of the mantra of maximise profit and minimise cost. Ok, in a free economy it's inevitable, but now the world economy seems to have slowed down in terms of economic expansion, (China, Asia,etc being the exception) then cost cutting seems to be the only thing left for established industries/corporations to increase the return to their share holders. Major innovation seems to be lacking somewhat...certainly nothing like the advent of the information age.

Sure we have new consumer goods, but nothing really that has caused a revolution in the way we lead our lives. Or maybe it's now a case of evolution rather than evolution?

Anyway that was slightly off topic. Yep, the Hatfield colliery in Yorkshire is due to re-open (or just has) because it's now economically viable to get the coal out. The trouble is that it's the least clean form of energy and so will contribute to climate change....maybe...if it's not just the natural change in the earth's climate cycle. But that's another debate for another thread.

Having read even more then I can see why the US wants to place the defence systems where they are. They're worried about states like North Korea and Iran so placing the missiles where they are gives them a better chance of defending themselves......but I can see why Russia would see this as provocative.

Politics......one of the causes of most of the worlds issues.

ZenTog
ZenTog  127875 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2007 - 6:37 PM

about time we mined our resources again rather than paying forthem from france etc, we should do the same with tin and other minerals etc.

regarding the missiles defences it could be to combat the threat of the rogue elements in those countries bordering the old russia , wouldnt trust Putin though he looks a real hard bas####d , he would love a return to the old days of a powerful Russia, remember that time he gave out hunting knifes as a gift to troops fighting resistance, in one of the bordering countries, used for cutting ears off corpses , nice guy !!
made me laugh / cry when looking at the amount of money we spent combating the Russian threat, when half their gear was useless and untested in battle, then we get tested forreal by the argentines and lose a lot of ships to conscript pilots with second rate equipment, imagnine if we had gone to war with Russia at its might with the gear we imagined they had we would have lost out big time, even in the little wars we are having now with Iraq and afgan we are losing a lot of soldiers

wasper
wasper e2 Member 8532 forum postswasper vcard Ireland1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Apr 2007 - 7:01 PM

Oh yeah, The Iranians or the North Koreans don't like the looks of the Eastern Europeans.
Come on no one is going to hit Europe. This is just making business for the big US multinationals. The US economy is dependent on war crisis management. Stop panicking & spreading delusional threats.

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