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Sorry got to leave the debate, after listening to the Glacier I have an inexplicable urge to go to the toilet.
I think I will call this artistic expression.
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So if its crap its modern art, if its not crap it is not modern art - I think I understand can I quote you on this?
Soory was that your glacial crack - or just a social comment?
Quote: So if its crap its modern art, if its not crap it is not modern art - I think I understand can I quote you on this?
Sad thing is I love some modern art, but frequently instalations just sail past me.
It's my cross to bear. So my experience, if its in an art gallery and you are wondering what it is ( I mean you can tell a cracked toilet pan and a cage with birds in it but the art??) and you turn to your long suffering wife who says
Quote: Its a pile of crap
you know its modern art.
I am told I take too romantic a view on life and what art should be.
Most photography, as we generally define it, is artistic, in that every time we frame a shot decisions are being made as to what to include in frame. The level of this art varies from the fundamental holiday snap to the highly creative use of lighting and post manipulation.
PS: What is art?
Photogaphy is Art !!
With photography, if it is not simply a 'record shot' and the intent is something more, then it is art.
surely art and beauty is in the eye of the beholder????????????????????????????????
Quote: Yep you have to be right as long as you know it is elephant poo
It had a big label saying 'Pile of elephant poo'.
Going back a bit I will say that the very foremost use of photography, supported by the history of photography, is the recording of the moment.
And I would say that audio recordings of 'the moment' and photographs are important, probably more important that art for the vast majority of people.
I love art but I like to put it into some sort of perspective. The perspective is that it is OK to consider photography as art but history will remember the recorded moment long after the art falls by the wayside.
Quote: It had a big label saying 'Pile of elephant poo'
Interesting whether the elephant got copyright.
And does that mean going to the toilet from now on will be expensive?
Quote: toilet from now on will be expensive?
Quote: a cracked toilet pan
is the result........
Which is not unlikely if an elephant's going to use it!
There was a lot more went into that cracked toilet pan than I apreciated. I am ashamed I had not understood the suffering for art.
and Croftsphoto yes you can be my agent
That's great, thank you - I'll be rich!!! Think I'll go out and spend it all tomorrow
I think because of the cultural shifts over time, our concept of art changes in accordance with these shifts. In the last half of the 20th century and in the present century, I believe that orchestras playing classical pieces by Beethoven or Mozart, for example, play at higher and more aggressive tempos than used to be fashionable.
In other words, art follows the cultural cycle or zeitgeist at the time.
Visual art is no different: look at the rubbish in the Turner gallery over a good number of years now (of course that is merely my subjective judgement); but of course, that is the point - art is surely impossible to define in absolute terms because it is so subjective by nature.
That said, I think art is something that has a form that is aesthetic, beautiful or emotionally appealing to the observer. I would say attractive patterns, colour and their juxtaposition are crucial ingredients in all art. I think this applies to music too because patterns and colour (in the sense of dynamics and textural variety) are vital elements.
I don't think art has to be particularly creative to be called art - provided it contains the above elements, but genuine creativity has to be one of the single most important elements that gives real value to a piece of art.
I feel that our modern art reflects our shallow cultural values and, not to put too fine a point on it, our insanely stressed society.
Regarding photography, there are fortunately, of course, thousands of decent photographs in EPZ galleries alone.
A number of these are real works of art in my view.
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