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jondf
jondf  72474 forum posts
15 Oct 2011 - 10:36 PM

The scandal that blew up over Southern Cross care homes and now revelations concerning the hospitalised elderly has me wondering what the future holds. And I don't just mean in terms of care. It's in all aspects of life, but care for the elderly is of particular concern.

As our population becomes increasingly top heavy with folk living longer, the need for care must increase. Yet if evidence from the two examples above is anything to go by, the ability of the system to recruit, train and retain suitable support staff is going to be severely tested. A generation is growing up with acute hedonistic instincts in which the concept of individual, self and choice are championed by some of the biggest hype merchants around, many of which are multi-national corporations.

In addition, where are the genuine leaders with the courage, skill and commitment to make a difference? Alas, one place where they're often not is in the family home where absent father's can skip their responsibilities and exit from a relationship just when they feel like it, leaving children at the mercy of a benefits-based income and no male role model.

Neither have all the recent revelations in politics and the media helped. If society perceives those who rule and inform us as unfit for the purpose, where will it lead? Anarchy? Chaos? Societal breakdown? Revolution? Maybe...

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brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110181 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
15 Oct 2011 - 10:56 PM

its the UK Jon - terminal apathy + "Universal Shock & Horror" at the latest fabrications by our Red Top press

If you really want to worry forget us "Olds" and think about that portion of the younger generation who are being let down by our so called education system and going into the workplace unfit to do any productive work (except become the absent fathers you mention above)

We will all be dead soon enough but they will be our future! Sad

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314957 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
15 Oct 2011 - 11:16 PM


Quote: In addition, where are the genuine leaders with the courage, skill and commitment to make a difference?

There not going to be in politics that`s for sureSad

Last Modified By Paul Morgan at 15 Oct 2011 - 11:17 PM
Camairish
Camairish  81276 forum posts Scotland
16 Oct 2011 - 12:26 AM

Not in national politics perhaps where a hunger for power and celebrity eclipses social conscience. There are thousands who operate on local levels though whose interests are firmly rooted in their beliefs and who make a real day to day difference to all levels within society. Just because it doesn't make the headlines doesn't mean it's not happening.

Generations have grown up with acute hedonistic instincts for..........................generations. It's the norm. As each member of each hedonistic youth reaches middle or older age and reflects on their own future they'll reach the same conclusions - things were better when I were a lad, we're all doomed!

C Darwin.

PS - I agree the demographic has changed in that the elderly are becoming topheavy in our population, but the lack of investement in tertiary education in our young (resulting in school leavers leaving the UK to Continental Europe for Uni places) could urely be utilised at this other end of the age spectrum?

Last Modified By Camairish at 16 Oct 2011 - 12:42 AM
jondf
jondf  72474 forum posts
16 Oct 2011 - 1:39 AM


Quote: It's the norm.

I agree, but for this generation there's a difference. Increasingly, young people are turning to their computers and in particular, their mobile phones as means of 1) social contact 2) power and control. Both devices offer unlimited scope for not speaking to people face to face. To do that one needs social skills learnt by experience. Computers and phones offer very limited versions of contact and where the user can exit at any point, should she or he wish it which I think ultimately, for many young people, creates discontent, unhappiness and a short fuse, however subconsciously.

When Blackberry's network went down recently, reaction from some users was so emotionally charged, it sounded as if they needed counselling. I might be wrong but think that for many, the mediums of mobile phones, computers and TVs offer such a false concept of social reality (and for many, the only reality) that trouble is storing up in the longer term.

joolsb
joolsb  927115 forum posts Switzerland38 Constructive Critique Points
16 Oct 2011 - 6:48 AM


Quote: where are the genuine leaders with the courage, skill and commitment to make a difference?

On a national level, the infatuation with ever younger leaders and the fact that politics is now seen as a career option rather than something you do out of a feeling of responsibility to society means that few, if any, of our leaders ever acquire the relevant life experience that enables them to make decisions which might be 'right' for the country yet politically 'wrong'. Instead, they are part of a system that is aimed purely at winning elections rather than governing in a sensible, level-headed and confident way. There should be a requirement that anyone up for any of the top ministerial positions must have led a life away from politics and has many years of ministerial experience.

Sadly, what we end up with are vacuous, good-looking but not too good-looking, politicians who are skilled at playing 'the game' but who don't have a clue when it comes to actually running the country.

pabloisme
pabloisme  4565 forum posts England
16 Oct 2011 - 8:34 AM


Quote: where are the genuine leaders with the courage, skill and commitment to make a difference?

I regret to tell you

Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington died 14 September 1852,

been a bit thin since then!

all our politicians since, have been rogues, liars, & self seeking carpetbaggers, well what do you expect it is in the job description? thought the job was advertised as " UP TO 5 YEAR CONTRICK, SEEKING: SELF IMPORTANT USLESS, UNEMPLOYABLE, WITH NO SUCCESFUL JOB EXPERIENCE (IN A REAL JOB), BROWN NOSING WASTERS WHO CANT STOP LYING CHEATING AND TAKING THE ELECTORATE FOR A RIDE"

I think they are just doing it to restore the journos credability level after the last mudrock debacle!

this is the last to be cought dipping in as the expenses pot is regulated! LINK

cambirder
cambirder  107202 forum posts England
16 Oct 2011 - 9:58 AM

The Duke of Wellington was not exactly a good PM

"His opposition to parliamentary reform made him unpopular, and he earned the nickname of the 'Iron Duke' when he erected iron shutters on the windows of his London home, Apsley House, to prevent them being smashed by angry crowds"

As for our treatment of old people this is not so much a political problem but one that runs through the whole of our society. How many old people die neglected in there own homes ignored by their neighbours or lie in hospital beds without a single visitor from the outside world. In a civilised society we all have a duty of care to vulnerable people who live near us but most of us do not get the slightest bit involved.

Politicians tend to reflect society as a whole, and its no surprise that many of ours are selfish, vain and heartless. We get the politicians we deserve.

pabloisme
pabloisme  4565 forum posts England
16 Oct 2011 - 10:13 AM

Apsley House with the address NO 1 LONDON was GIVEN by a GRATEFUL NATION but not me personally, 'cos I was small even then!

BUT he was a soldier & did what was needed, and lived his days in public service @82 years old with his boots on?
(try that "tony of the millions" {of quids} mmm 2 wars we didn't need to be in. OK! THE US wanted the oil in IRAQ BUT afghanistan a waste of good toms! )

btw, the plot of land NO 1 is on even then was worth a few quid! go inside IF you can, more silver than gordy sold cheapo! another person who never had a real job before the ritual slagging of opposition!



Quote: Politicians tend to reflect society as a whole, and its no surprise that many of ours are selfish, vain and heartless. We get the politicians we deserve.

BLOODY TRUE but they have always been b******s so............... what does that say?

JUST YOU TRY AND GET SOMEONE TO SIGN A SIMPLE PETITION TO DO SOMETHING OR STOP SMETHING sheep = baa baa

Last Modified By Moderator Team at 16 Oct 2011 - 10:34 AM
mikehit
mikehit  46182 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
16 Oct 2011 - 7:51 PM


Quote: "UP TO 5 YEAR CONTRICK, SEEKING: SELF IMPORTANT USLESS, UNEMPLOYABLE, WITH NO SUCCESFUL JOB EXPERIENCE (IN A REAL JOB), BROWN NOSING WASTERS WHO CANT STOP LYING CHEATING AND TAKING THE ELECTORATE FOR A RIDE"

When has it been any different?
Politics used to be dominated by rich people, some had a sense of social responsibility and for others it was contuniation of power (business or military). Just because the press did not report their misdoings, do you really think they were all upright citizens?
Lloyd George and Winston Churchill would never have survived out current tabloid press and I am sure that is the same for the last 1,000 years! All that has happened is that our expectations of what to expect from the political class has become ridiculously cheapened.
Would you survive the expectations? Or do you not go for it because you know you would fail?




I fear it is a case of 'reap what you sow'. I am one of the baby boomers and I wonder if we have convinced ourselves that we can have everything we want and we have passed a corrupted version of this attitude to the next generation where self sacrifice is much under-valued commodity

.

mikehit
mikehit  46182 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
16 Oct 2011 - 7:55 PM


Quote: The scandal that blew up over Southern Cross care homes and now revelations concerning the hospitalised elderly has me wondering what the future holds. And I don't just mean in terms of care. It's in all aspects of life, but care for the elderly is of particular concern.

One thing I always remember from my time travelling in Asia, was asking guys aged anywhere from 20 to mid-30s what their ambition was. Almost without fail it was 'to look after my parents'. It was a very humbling view to life and just showed how much we have lost the sense of responsibility, not to society but to our own kith and kin. And as a result we expect our parents to end up in the care of complete strangers instead of asking 'what can I do to look after them'. And having abrogated that responsibility we then fume when the state even suggests that maybe we should repay that help by giving up some of our inheritance.
We need a sense of proportion about 'rights and responsbilities'.

jondf
jondf  72474 forum posts
16 Oct 2011 - 8:11 PM


Quote: And as a result we expect our parents to end up in the care of complete strangers instead of asking 'what can I do to look after them'.

Mike, I'm in complete agreement with you. Most of us owe our parents at least that but the distractions and pressures of modern living make folk take the easy option. Children should be taught from an early age, both by their parents and at school, that wherever possible, parents should be cared for by their immediate families. Elderly people in the family unit would add knowledge, wisdom and experience whilst providing a balancing effect on the family.

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1314957 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
16 Oct 2011 - 8:15 PM


Quote: Children should be taught from an early age, both by their parents and at school, that wherever possible, parents should be cared for by their immediate families

Would you, how do you know you will be able to cope when the time came.

On average we are living longer, but what of are brains and minds, dementia care is a huge problem and its only going to get worse.

pabloisme
pabloisme  4565 forum posts England
17 Oct 2011 - 7:46 AM

MIKEHIT:

Quote: Would you survive the expectations? Or do you not go for it because you know you would fail?

as you know me? BUT may have forgotten my background?


the net has taken the tabloids away from the equation to a large extent, the immediacy of email forums and showing TODAY that you are p***ed off with them instead of waiting to be hood winked at the end of the parliamentary session OR what ever it is in other countries, we trust newspapers even less than their self serving ex partners,

MP's are struggling to cope with the venom we now show, whilst it took ages for them to screw us over, we now bite back, IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THE STATUS QUO, fine BUT I want to leave my grandchildren something better that I had (or we get now)

IF YOU get told a lie in a shop or sales situation you would complain NO? get told a lie by a politician be a man show what you think of them.

the people talking (albeit in the ether) to people ALL showing that they are disgruntled and fed up to the back teeth with being lied to NOW THE catching the errant and punishment (weak though it is) is faster than ever!

quiet men let abusers get away with too much and when the get POWER they get crazy, sadly its life BUT now the mass has a poerful weapon the internet.

dont be a quiet man!

mikehit
mikehit  46182 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
17 Oct 2011 - 8:09 AM

Now you are talking in riddles, Pablo.
If the internet had been around when the Duke of Wellington was, he would never have survived the public onslaught because, as has been ponited out, he was at one point deeply unpopular as a politician.
The last thing I want is for a government and a cabinet to be formed as a knee-jerk reaction to unpopular policies when an internet campaign gets a head of steam. If that was the case, in the current economic climate we would have either a new government every 2 months or a government nose-diving the country into debt to buy votes.

You decry the tabloid system but it does work pretty well in uncovering sleaze: at least they check their sources (most of the time) and, after all, where do the internet campaigns get their impetus? The internet is far too unregulated with all sorts of libel being propgated as urban myth. Personally I would prefer to get the basis of my fact from the press.

And yes, if a shopkeeper or a policemean lied to me I may well complain. But unfortuantely the modus operandi of the press is 'He told a porkie. RESIGN!'. As I said, they have lost all sense of proportion.

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