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Will UK plc crash like so many others?

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collywobles
9 Oct 2013 - 4:07 PM

Garth you are right it was perhaps a little cruel to tease Haille so I apologise but it was meant in good fun. You know where I stand on the Tory vs Socialist issue but we do agree on one thing that it is incomprehensible that ever since WWII the gap between rich and poor has increased and it is something as a nation we should all be ashamed of. Although the present Govt tout that unemployment is coming down, it is at the expense of 'part time workers' and 'no hours' contracts. It is crucial that a living wage is paid and that no one earning less than the minimum wage should pay any income tax, but here my social conscience stops.

As for blaming banks, bankers and politicians its a non starter, its happened so lets get on with our lives after all it was years ago so lets move on. As for Peter in Haille's example it is tragic and we do not know the full story, but I have to ask if Peter can sit all day playing a guitar on the street ....................??

As far as taxation is concerned, I do believe that taxing anyone more than the present 40-50% on there earned income is enough, as I said "just how much more do they want" I do believe the 50p Income Tax should be reinstated on anyone earning over 150K, it wont make much difference to the UK coffers, but it sends a message and makes a point.

Last Modified By collywobles at 9 Oct 2013 - 4:09 PM
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9 Oct 2013 - 4:07 PM

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thewilliam
9 Oct 2013 - 4:36 PM


Quote: As far as taxation is concerned, I do believe that taxing anyone more than the present 40-50% on there earned income is enough, as I said "just how much more do they want" I do believe the 50p Income Tax should be reinstated on anyone earning over 150K, it wont make much difference to the UK coffers, but it sends a message and makes a point.

I didn't think that the super-rich paid any income tax. Just as the well-known coffee shop chain and other multi-nationals don't have to pay any UK Corporation Tax.

Heck, the government (of all colours) has been bought and paid-for so what do people expect?

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102290 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
9 Oct 2013 - 5:49 PM


Quote: just to play devil's advocate for a moment, the rich also employ more people than the poor so contribute to the wealth of the nation in more ways than just through their tax? Smile

Fair point, and I respect your role as devil's advocate in the interests of having a balanced discussion. Of course, very few issues are black and white but I feel that the poor would still find employment even if the rich were not so rich. For instance, we might have a much better and productive society if there were more small business employers. I'm not saying this would be possible at the present time in the "real world" but it should be an aspiration, in my opinon, to scale down big business and also to regulate the financial sector in a much more muscular way.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110307 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
9 Oct 2013 - 5:58 PM


Quote: to scale down big business

again, still in DA mode, there are key activities that require a massive scale of business to enable them to exist, Oil / gas Exploration and production (one I have direct and personal knowledge of) for example, where the smaller businesses thrive by taking over the developed fields and run them more economically as they don't have those enormous upfront investments to make

Likewise with energy production and distribution, small companies could not afford the infrastructure costs

ditto for pharmaceuticals and other industries demanding high level / expensive research and licensing activities

What we have is more or less where we will end up unless we change our entire way of living, large infrastructure business with small to medium entrepreneurial business providing support and extension of the existing business later in the life cycle.

collywobles
10 Oct 2013 - 8:08 AM


Quote: What we have is more or less where we will end up unless we change our entire way of living, large infrastructure business with small to medium entrepreneurial business providing support and extension of the existing business later in the life cycle.

You are right in this respect that the public get what the public wants. All business does is cater to demand.

thewilliam
10 Oct 2013 - 10:17 AM


Quote: You are right in this respect that the public get what the public wants. All business does is cater to demand.

I thought it was the other way round. The advertising industry manipulates the punters so that they believe that they want the products that big business has on offer.

collywobles
10 Oct 2013 - 10:33 AM

If you are Jerk enough to be manipulated by the advertising industry then you deserve what you get.

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102290 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
10 Oct 2013 - 11:57 AM


Quote: If you are Jerk enough to be manipulated by the advertising industry then you deserve what you get.

But doesn't that make us all jerks? Wink

thewilliam
10 Oct 2013 - 12:34 PM

Sometimes an entire country can be manipulated by effective propaganda.

Not counting those who fled for their lives, there were very few dissenters in Nazi Germany. It was so effective that, even today, a substantial proportion of their population would welcome Hitler's return.

collywobles
10 Oct 2013 - 1:23 PM

Bloody hell William - lighten up...... you'll be having a go at the Vikings next............ Tongue

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102290 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
10 Oct 2013 - 1:40 PM


Quote: Bloody hell William - lighten up...... you'll be having a go at the Vikings next............ Tongue

...and they could be our ancestors! Wink But seriously, I think whether William needs to lighten up or not, I think he is only too correct in what he says - but maybe you and I will have to differ on that. Smile

keithh
keithh e2 Member 1023100 forum postskeithh vcard Wallis and Futuna33 Constructive Critique Points
10 Oct 2013 - 1:45 PM

Hello sir, can you spare two minutes?

Ok.

I understand you are out of work and have a **** life. Would you welcome Hitler back....and bear in mind this question is hypothetical so you can say what you like,

Yes.

Carabosse
Carabosse e2 Member 1139496 forum postsCarabosse vcard England269 Constructive Critique Points
10 Oct 2013 - 2:25 PM


Quote: For instance, we might have a much better and productive society if there were more small business employers

Maybe, but not everyone has the entrepeneurial spirit! Wink

thewilliam
10 Oct 2013 - 2:33 PM


Quote: Bloody hell William - lighten up...... you'll be having a go at the Vikings next............ Tongue

You're right, I don't get my stationery from Viking! Do you want to know why? .......

My point was that a population can be so profoundly affected by advertising and propaganda that it's a struggle to know whether our thoughts really are our own.

gcarth
gcarth e2 Member 102290 forum postsgcarth vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
10 Oct 2013 - 3:19 PM


Quote: My point was that a population can be so profoundly affected by advertising and propaganda that it's a struggle to know whether our thoughts really are our own.

Yep, I think they call it brainwashing - and that's no exaggeration is it? Subliminal persuasion and general thought conditioning - it's all there...and of course the great(?) pioneer behind all this was Edward Bernays in the US. I won't bang on too much about him because I've mentioned him before on these forums, but he quite openly boasted about his ability to persuade consumers to buy products and to accept government propaganda (He of course, said it was in the interests of the rulers and a stable society). In words we (hoi polloi) are to be the puppets and his elitists pals are to be the puppet masters. Needless to say, the Neo-cons took this to new levels and their influence is still causing tremendous harm today across the globe.
I'm suddenly aware, however, that I'm drifting a bit from the main topic: "Will UK plc crash like so many others?" My answer to that is: Quite possibly, if we continue to live beyond our means: Maybe we need to cut down on quantity and improve quality. Obviously the issues of wastefulness and forward, joined-up thinking needs to be looked at. However, I don't really think any of the main parties are likely to step up to the plate...Sad
Obviously, in the case of new houses, we need quantity and decent quality housing that is energy efficent and therefore less strain on the economy in the long run...

Last Modified By gcarth at 10 Oct 2013 - 3:21 PM

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