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    cats_123
    cats_123 e2 Member 103999 forum postscats_123 vcard Northern Ireland24 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jul 2013 - 9:05 AM

    Belfast Telegraph GrinGrinGrinGrin


    I'm not brave (or foolhardy) enough to go anywhere near that part of Belfast ........

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    16 Jul 2013 - 9:05 AM

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    lemmy
    lemmy  71768 forum posts United Kingdom
    16 Jul 2013 - 9:33 AM

    Good pic. One of my first Fleet Street assignments was covering the troubles in 'Derry' in 1969. Among other incidents, three IRA men grabbed me because they thought I was a B Special and were talking of throwing me off the bridge. Luckily the gift of the gab saw me though.

    I think sometimes that people don't understand the risks involved in this kind of work which is day to day fodder for someone on a Belfast paper. At least in Fleet Street you can dip in and out of it.

    Gaucho
    Gaucho e2 Member 122198 forum postsGaucho vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jul 2013 - 9:41 AM

    Remarkable photo!

    You're right Lemmy. My brother worked for the Buenos Aires Herald during the "disappearances", the only Argentine paper to take a stand against the regime, and it was a very dodgy time both for the staff and in particular Bob Cox the then editor. Brave people indeed.

    Andy80F
    Andy80F  11306 forum posts United Kingdom
    16 Jul 2013 - 9:44 AM


    Quote: It is also circulating as an internet meme with the caption 'UFO Unidentified Flying Orangeman.

    Grin

    Was in NI recently for a wedding, just before the "marching season" and the underlying tensions are palpable. Its holding the country back.

    GarethRobinson
    GarethRobinson e2 Member 7954 forum postsGarethRobinson vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jul 2013 - 10:11 AM

    A great shot now that ***** will be hailed a hero, now round all the assholes up, put them in a field, let them beat each other to death then nuke the basta*ds.

    This place has gone to hell. I live in the middle of a so called interface and my kids cant leave the house from fear of being beat for walking to the local park. Sick and tired of the whole bloody thing. Some day the police will do their jobs, and normal people can get on with their lives.

    Last Modified By GarethRobinson at 16 Jul 2013 - 10:18 AM
    pulsar69
    pulsar69  101611 forum posts United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jul 2013 - 10:46 AM

    Great snap and a case of being in the right place at the right time , sometimes like this one a photo does not need technical or artistic content it just needs to portray an event or time which this does.

    The guy is obviously a press tog and in the course of his job though so i am not sure why all the fuss about him ?, any press photographer who had been in the right place could have taken the same shot easily , so could an amateur with a decent camera and tele lens - so there is no photographic skill to be commended, just the guys foresight to get in the right place ( or that may have been pure luck ? )

    Gundog
    Gundog  1624 forum posts Scotland
    16 Jul 2013 - 11:05 AM


    Quote: A great shot now that ***** will be hailed a hero, now round all the assholes up, put them in a field, let them beat each other to death then nuke the basta*ds.

    This place has gone to hell. I live in the middle of a so called interface and my kids cant leave the house from fear of being beat for walking to the local park. Sick and tired of the whole bloody thing. Some day the police will do their jobs, and normal people can get on with their lives.

    I am afraid it is symptomatic of what results from 20th Century British policy. "Solve a problem by partition".

    It didn't work in India, it didn't work in Palestine and it didn't work in Ireland. In all three cases, those of us living in Britain today should be very wary of being judgemental about the consequences of those partitions that our politicians created. It might be easy to be wise in retrospect but virtually impossible, I suspect, to engineer a solution.

    lemmy
    lemmy  71768 forum posts United Kingdom
    16 Jul 2013 - 12:02 PM


    Quote: The guy is obviously a press tog and in the course of his job though so i am not sure why all the fuss about him

    Because he has taken a good press pic. Most people in their jobs get praise when they get or do something out of the ordinary. You make the mistake of thinking that he has taken this picture for photo enthusiasts. Artistic and technical content are not an aim for a press man, capturing the telling moment is.

    I can tell you that with violence and threat all around, there are not that many people who can keep their head, ignore their own safety and still do their job.

    I agree with GarethRobinson, it's a tragedy that all this has flared again. In all civil conflicts there seem to be a core of 5% on either side who want to foment and carry out violence. It was true of the former Yugoslavia, is true of Syria and Northern Ireland. Most people just want you be left alone to go about their business, get their kids educated, all the ordinary, normal things. There are obviously resentments in Northern Ireland but the people demonstrating are not activists, more just thugs who have found an excuse.

    If Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley could find it in themselves to reach an accommodation, so could these people.

    mikehit
    mikehit  46163 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jul 2013 - 12:28 PM


    Quote: Because he has taken a good press pic.

    I agree. He probably wanted to get a picture of the guy being blasted by water canon and did not realise he would get a picture of the guy being propelled bodily backwards. You make your own luck.



    Quote: I am afraid it is symptomatic of what results from 20th Century British policy. "Solve a problem by partition".


    In many cases, partition as never considered as 'the solution', but arises out of the intractability of the situation - and it is not a 'British' thing. The Catholics in NI called for the protection of the British government after they were targeted by the Protestants. The Muslims in Yugoslavia called for the help of the international community. Partition in India was at the request of the Muslims. Unfortunately as soon as forces step in to calm the situation, the partition is created - unless of course you think the British Govt or International community should not have stepped in and left them to it and then be criticised for not preventing the resulting deaths? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    pulsar69
    pulsar69  101611 forum posts United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jul 2013 - 1:37 PM

    "Because he has taken a good press pic. Most people in their jobs get praise when they get or do something out of the ordinary"

    Actually i completely disagree , imo he did not do anything out of the ordinary he did his job adequately , the situation was out of the ordinary - not what he did. Most people don't get praised for doing there job well when someone else is the reason. He did not shoot the water canon nor was he hit by it , he was a bystander who happened to be in the right place at the right time.

    Had he gotten closer in and maybe taken a burst of images to show the action or captured the look on the guys face i would be more impressed but as it is that photo could have been taken by anybody even with a mobile.

    In fact having looked at the other images in the sequences with a good camera and tele there were some great facial expressions to be caught there but he obviously did not want to get close to the action and stuck with shots at a good distance, there are no great portraits and everything is really just about the scene and not intimate or personal enough to create real lasting photography. There are some amazing war photos from Iraq, Afghan etc etc where togs have really gone one step beyond in a much more violent and dangerous situation yet this guy gets all the credit.

    Last Modified By pulsar69 at 16 Jul 2013 - 1:43 PM
    mikehit
    mikehit  46163 forum posts United Kingdom9 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jul 2013 - 2:15 PM

    I m not sure he is getting a whole load of credit, but people are commenting on it being a very good photograph (which it is). In the same way as did pictures of the cat that looks like Hitler.

    lemmy
    lemmy  71768 forum posts United Kingdom
    16 Jul 2013 - 2:31 PM


    Quote: There are some amazing war photos from Iraq, Afghan etc etc where togs have really gone one step beyond in a much more violent and dangerous situation yet this guy gets all the credit.

    I am less inclined than you to think I could have done the job better than him, having personal experience of such situations but also since I was not there.

    You are concatenating in your mind all the best war pictures you have seen in other theatres of war and comparing one shot in Belfast to them all. He may well have taken all the pictures you would have done so much more skilfully but he is not the picture editor and does not decide what is published. I cannot count the times when a published picture of mine was not what I considered the best but that is the nature of the beast.

    The guy has taken a memorable picture. I would have thought 'well done' was more merited than your slightly sour take. I cannot understand your remark that he is getting the credit for pictures taken by others in other countries. As far as I can tell he getting credit for this one picture from Belfast.

    GarethRobinson
    GarethRobinson e2 Member 7954 forum postsGarethRobinson vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jul 2013 - 3:14 PM

    I say if anyone can do better come stand at the sidelines or get in the middle of the rioting and do the job.

    Being caught or having to live in the middle of these things is a nightmare and until you experience it first hand you aint got a god dam clue.

    As a press photo its fantastic.

    Last Modified By GarethRobinson at 16 Jul 2013 - 3:17 PM
    User_Removed
    16 Jul 2013 - 8:12 PM

    In a previous occupation I have been caught up in a few, violent protests, demonstrations and the like. It is absolutely blimmen terrifying !
    The adrenalin that pumps through your body causes you to shake, it's known as the Fight or Flight syndrome. Its something you have to experience to truly understand.
    There is no way that mob wants a photographer around.
    I think some folk on here are greatly underestimating the risk that photographer was facing.
    I'm pretty sure I couldn't have held a camera steady in such a highly charged atmosphere, I have my doubts that the detractors here could either !

    My hat goes off to press togs, they have to work in some difficult situations to earn a crust.

    Last Modified By User_Removed at 16 Jul 2013 - 8:14 PM
    keithh
    keithh  1022777 forum posts Wallis and Futuna29 Constructive Critique Points
    16 Jul 2013 - 8:28 PM

    It's rubbish. Most wedding photographers experience far more tension and violence every weekend and still manage to deliver the goods. Wink

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