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Group: FIRST DISCUSSION GROUP

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Made By: NEWMANP
Start: 10/11/2009 - 8:04 PM
End: 25/11/2009 - 8:04 PM
Address: discussionland
United Kingdom

A place to link your pictures for open discussion and more in depth critique if requested.

please provide taking information / settings if applicable and outline areas you would like to discuss.

Comments

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
10 Nov 2009 - 10:28 PM

welcome on board, it looks as if we have the makings of a great team here, i just wish i had work work worthy of uploading Wink

seriously though, if anyone is dithering please dont feel that the work uploaded has to be mind blowingly creative, it dosnt matter if its a flower or a plain red screen. the idea here is to talk and get more in depth than we would normally in the gallery. clicks are totally optional.
ALL WE WANT NOW ARE IMAGES WE HAVE OURSELVES THE FIRST DISCUSSION GROUP.

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10 Nov 2009 - 10:40 PM

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Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
10 Nov 2009 - 10:40 PM

Can I also add that if you are joining this just to view what people say you don't need to - everything will be on display in the gallery and you can view and comment there. If you join this group you are committing to spending time either uploading your own photo into the group and then getting involved in debate about the image or joining in on debate about other peoples images.

Use this area to discuss the group and meeting issues...use the usual photo comment area to discuss specific photos when someone uploads one.

Last Modified By Pete at 10 Nov 2009 - 10:41 PM
brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110266 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
10 Nov 2009 - 11:05 PM

its a bit late in the evening for my brain to function above survival level so I will look again tomorrow with a view to contributing.

Its going to be interesting to see how this develops

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
10 Nov 2009 - 11:12 PM

I think there may be an issue with numbers - as in the more people who join the harder it might be for each picture to get the attention it deserves, but we will see. You can use this area to discuss the concept and group so you can develop the group and it's process (even rules if you want) as you go along.

User_Removed
11 Nov 2009 - 8:09 AM


Quote: Can I also add that if you are joining this just to view what people say you don't need to - everything will be on display in the gallery and you can view and comment there.

But trying to find all the images in the gallery that are part of this group might be hard. So, by joining the group they are all nicely collected together.

I have joined the group becasue I want to see how it develops and I would like to think I would take part. But like so many things time will determine if I can give it the attention I should.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110266 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2009 - 8:24 AM

The first three images make me consider the role of the viewer in ascribing meaning to what is presented.

It exposes a weakness in me as an observer in that I can find no meaning yet I must assume that the photographer had intended there to be something of importance to them when they took the shot.

So, is this a lack of empathy in me as the viewer, missing cues in the image itself or simply a representation of the fact that we each look at the world through different eyes?

(I could "Describe" each of these shots to a third party but I couldn't "Explain" them)

Maybe its part of the reason why there are so few useful critiques?

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2009 - 8:55 AM


Quote: But trying to find all the images in the gallery that are part of this group might be hard. So, by joining the group they are all nicely collected together.

I'm not trying to put anyone off joining a group but you don't have to join to view. Just come to this page and all the pics are there to be seen and commented on. In joining a group you need to be actively getting involved in the debate or it will end up a crowded room with no one doing anything.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110266 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2009 - 9:03 AM

just to clarify my comments - they relate to "Garden Features", "White Chairs" and "Taxi Rank"

riprap007
riprap007  101568 forum posts England37 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2009 - 12:06 PM

Hi Brian, meaning(s) are one of the values that can be ascribed to an image when undertaking a crit... the image may not have an intended meaning, although analysis will reveal the meanings to which it refers or infers to. It's perhaps best therefore to approach each image seeking what values, what qualities are in the image. I explain approaches to this in my blog.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110266 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2009 - 12:07 PM

The picture of "Tabby" that I put up was an image to discuss Context, Content and Meaning.

To most viewers it is simply a rather mediocre picture of an anonymous cat and as such, it wont even appear on most viewers horizon, so will get very few views.

For those who do look it may produce a +ve or -ve reaction based on whether the viewer is a cat lover or not.

They may then judge it as an image (which is the way those who have looked so far have commented, thanks) or have an emotional response if it reminds them of one of their cats.

For me -

the context was the discussion [link]here[/link] and I could have possibly linked the image in to the thread if I wanted a cat-lovers' repsonse

the content was a simple record shot to provide to my friends with no attempt to produce a "Good" photographic image

the meaning worked on several levels for me but the primary level was satisfaction that I had produced an image which gave pleasure to my friends. On a secondary level it still makes me smile as a reminder of this rather scruffy but friendly animal but it probably has no meaning other than "Another Bloody cat picture" to anyone else (oh and, maybe "4 marks" from a judge were I stupid enough to put it into a competition Smile )

just spotted your comment Phil, yes - I had read your blog content on this and was trying to fit my own views around it. "Meaning" has a whole raft of connotation and is a fairly daunting subject once you start exploring it as here

Last Modified By brian1208 at 11 Nov 2009 - 12:11 PM
brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110266 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2009 - 12:21 PM

the link didn't work, it should have shown this thread

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2009 - 1:06 PM

hey Brian,
if you dont get the image, thats great because its an honest opinion. you need to say so on the page and then i can answer because that what discussion is.

you dont have to understand or like a picture to comment upon it. some shots are obvious and some are not.

my usual uploads are landscapes and if you look you will understand them because they are scenes with effects of light and weather. i understand why i take those, im not sure myself why i like taking the others but i do. the camera looks up and does it without thought sometimes

they are in a way record shots with graphic content of shapes and about colour, in this case a valid travel shot though i dont wish to expand here.

what i am saying is this is the whole point of this group. discuss maybe we all learn from it.
Phil

User_Removed
11 Nov 2009 - 8:16 PM

Had a lot of feedback left on my last image.

This has helped me see a few errors, basic flaws such as pose, exposure etc. Made me realize i need to work a bit harder to achieve something really special, so this weekends shoot will be interesting for me as i always try and push myself further with every shoot anyway but this time i will focus more intently on what i wish to achieve.

I definately want to up my game and this is the place for me to realize a few home truths about my work. I thank you all who commented.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2009 - 2:48 PM

...may join this later, then again, tonight's shot looks like it fits in the night photography group...

I'm torn!

Geraint
Geraint  8715 forum posts Wales34 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2009 - 10:50 PM

Hi. I've already uploaded my photo for today. How do I add it to this discussion group?

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110266 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2009 - 11:23 PM

Is it me or are we at risk of becoming another Critique sub-group? there seems to little real discussion going on (but lots of good critiquing)

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2009 - 6:37 PM

ive had several qustions asked of me about how to get the best from this.

my original thought was that its so easy to post a picture and get little back other than nice comments and clicks but no dialogue. how could we get more from an upload.

ages ago, Ade and i had a little experiment going and were regularly giving in depth breakdowns on each others shots which actually meant something. i also think that this experiment was also the spark which led him to start the buddie group. i like to think this is similar to a buddy group but open house with no subject to tie you down.

posting in the CG is useful if you are prepared to be offered help of all types, but is maybe not the best place for advanced workers and so there is nowhere to discuss images. this way at least we know the poster will appreciate some chatter about the pictures before we wade in. whether this is just critique or just chatter about the subject insnt important.

its not nesessary to post to CG to participate in here. just post to the open gallery but link to the meeting. probably the best way is to open a new meeting each month and just keep linking to that with all your uploads for the month.

in this way, anyone commited to the group will be assured of a good selection of appraisals, discussions, advice whatever is requested or brought out of conversation. probably the best way to get the most is to reply to the comments and get a dialogue running.

at the end of the day, its what you make it, it can fall on its face or we can all make it work. not me but all of you. either way in the gallery or in the CG dosnt matter, you should get more out of the upload than you normally would. linking to the group dosnt have to affect your other clickers either in the gallery as they still have total freedom to add any comment they wish.

any one any questions or ideas now its been running a few days.

as far as i am concered im having chats with members i have not been in contact before so something must be working

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2009 - 1:43 AM

Can i join in ?

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2009 - 10:20 AM

all for one and one for all
Phil

pablo69
pablo69  6200 forum posts England7 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2009 - 1:17 PM

Should the reply to a critic be private mail or with the picture so all can see?
Do I comment on all or just the ones I think I may be able to help on.
What if I think the picture is good? just add "good picture", or leave no comment?
Sorry for such simple questions just trying to make sure any help I give is useful.

Paul

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2009 - 4:25 PM

for all to see i would have thought, thats what discussion is really. 2 way stuff.

comment on as many as you can, it dosnt work without comments and discussion.

if you think the picture is good, say why you think so. what can you see in the image.

follow some of the previous uploads.

from what i see the level of comment is much better than it would have been in the gallery alone.
Phil

Last Modified By NEWMANP at 16 Nov 2009 - 4:26 PM
Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2009 - 11:47 PM

fkit, These cgd images contaminate my gallery , I didnt realise they would appear there.


Much better to have them in a dedicated room...

Learn , adapt and post depth then to your own , sorry , Im outta here.

Nite.

Last Modified By Eviscera at 16 Nov 2009 - 11:49 PM
Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
17 Nov 2009 - 6:51 PM

Erm , of course , having the experimentals in your own gallery or not should be for debate.

To much vino methinks last night . Sorry .

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
17 Nov 2009 - 11:00 PM

nice to see more names moving in, keep posting and talking and we will run this till the month end then start a new meeting for next month if you still want to carry on.
im sorry i havnt had so much site time this last few days. im popping in when i can
Phil

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
18 Nov 2009 - 1:34 PM


Quote: Erm , of course , having the experimentals in your own gallery or not should be for debate.

To much vino methinks last night . Sorry .

I'm not entirely sure I fully follow what you were on about get your 2 posts, but if you're on about putting shots that are less than perfect in your own gallery, then I'd say that's the whole point of EPZ.

Well it is if you're using the site as a learning resource.

My gallery is full of wierd and diverse things that I've been trying.

I'd get bored posting the same stuff all the time.

So definitely put up "experimentals" would be my answer... put your perfect gallery on your own site and use EPZ for learning and critiques.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
18 Nov 2009 - 2:22 PM

not read all of this yet Phil, but are we "discussing" rather than critting, and are we doing that in this meeting area, or on the shots themselves?

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
18 Nov 2009 - 7:26 PM

I dont have a website.

(Well I do, but a mate knocked it up for me cos he believed I should)

Its inactive and I dont know how to upload or change it.

Thats why I dont want my "experimentals" in my gallery here on ePZ,

I dont think im a crap photographer anymore thanks to this place, just want to go new directions helped by a "private" room.

A real gentlemens club of honest opinon that doesnt get seen by zillions, slating , helping , musing etc.

So unless its in a seperate "Discussion gallery" , Im not posting cdg.

Now do you see what Im going on about ?

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 10:39 AM

Fair enough - you're using the site more as a portfolio piece than a learning tool Smile

what's "CDG?"

not being flippant here, just never heard that term before.

I'm not sure how you can upload photos and for them not to appear in your gallery, maybe Pete could help there?

I'm the exact opposite, my very first shots from 2003 are still on the site... piss poor as most of them were.

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 12:57 PM

Ade,

the idea was post images to a meeting room to keep them all in an place where we know we can find them. probably a new room each month. its grown to 20 in there but not everyone is posting or commenting, problem is i have stuff keeping me from the computer at the momoent.

anyone in the group to comment/and critique on the image page as normal ,the nature of discussion would be tailored depending upon the posters request, but would be a little deeper than we normally would. may be in the way that we were doing during the experiment on rear postings a while ago

there are several on the site saying they post images and get no meaningful dialogue and that the critique gallery is not really a place they want to be. i was looking for a solution for them. a sort of advanced crit gallery if you like. it seems to be working at the moment because all those above have a good few comments
Phil

Last Modified By NEWMANP at 19 Nov 2009 - 12:59 PM
ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 1:49 PM

ah ok - so we're not really discussing much in this section, rather on the images linked to the section.

Quite a lot of images... the original crit buddies was 7, and you rarely got all 7 people joining in...

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 7:41 PM

CGD = Critical Discussion Group.

Its not my intention to use the site as a portfolio piece only, I have as much to learn as anyone.

Ive posted images asking for crit and/or aesthetic depth as this meeting room evokes.

I want to be able to put an image in a private room , have honest and knowledgeable people say , Thats crap , its a bit weak compared to blah blah , but more importanty say "Why"

And that includes some of the messgaes I am trying to get across.

If I wanted sunshine blowing up my arse I would join other sites , but this is the only "community" sprited place I am interested in.

So in conclusion , a meeting room like this , without fear of ridicule or retribution , but private is what Id like to have.

Simples , if we can learn pp skills or re-train our photographic eye in here , then we can launch our better attempts in our own galleries.

Last Modified By Eviscera at 19 Nov 2009 - 7:43 PM
Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 7:53 PM

cgd - Critical Discussion Group . apols im a bit dyxlesic !

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 8:33 PM

Ok - I've thrown one into the pot.

No one's looked at it the gallery so it must be rubbish

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 9:10 PM

Classic example of why this room should be private viewing.

It seems you are inviting technical critique on your image Ade with all that lighting malarkey ?

Im not in the least bit qualified to say if its good or bad lighting.

But someone is.

Thats why this room needs to evolve networking concepts , genres.

Aesthetic and technical.

Blimey , perhaps not only should the CDG place not have the images in our galleries , it shoud be password protected as well lol.

Lets see if you get the critical discussion on yours , technically , dont know , aesthetically , no purpose.

Would never post that in a million years , to scared !

Last Modified By Eviscera at 19 Nov 2009 - 9:17 PM
ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 10:25 PM

we're from different worlds photographically Smile

that's why this group Phil started has potential.

I did a more traditional shoot with Trung about a year ago - 2 lights, one softbox, one brolly and a black background... could have done the same last night but what's the point.. he's got lots with those lights and I've been there, seen it and done it.

I'm still a novice with things like honeycombs and snoots - I like the effect, far more directional lighting - if I did a body shot I just got the top of him lit. With the old set up, a lot of him would have been lit...

Stuff like that keeps it interesting.

If the weather improves, I'll be taking the lights in to leeds to see what I can get with an urban backdrop.

Got to be easier than dealing with 5 flash stands in a little kitchen in Morley! God that was hard - and the batteries on the triggers were playing up...

there's one thing doing stuff like this in a studio where space is not a problem, you have the white wall to play with etc. but doing it in a confined space with a 5 foot wide white sheet hanging from the cieling is a different matter.

The main man I'd want to hear from is Breadandshutter - more for the outdoor stufff - as he's up there producing stuff I aspire too.

Used to be Mr Henson with landscapes

Maybe I'll be into squirrels and pestering Cheryl next... Wink

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 10:44 PM

NOOOO ! Smile

Not the squirells and bubbles , pleeeze.

Your far to good and innovative ,

Have a think on the private option eh ?

And yes , its got more potential than we have worked out yet Wink

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 11:13 PM

its true we dont want hot air blowing up the a>>>>> and why is a very good question to ask, how is another. but up to now few have been in here asking questions like that, hopefully all that will develop--- all i ask is that if people are being honest do it kindly, dont want to upset members, not here for that.

main reason is to get some level of comments going that reach deeper than nice shot. in a funny way just why? followed by and answer and a follow up seem more appealing.

not every upload has to be blisteringly creative, i love it yes but im not overly creative or good but i do enjoy photography deeper than many and everything is valid to me.

Pete has said in the forum, if the idea is popular something more organised could be put in place, that may include a closed room and i have no objection to that. if you are looking in Pete how do you feel?
Phil

Last Modified By NEWMANP at 19 Nov 2009 - 11:16 PM
ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2009 - 11:57 PM

I'd go with the private option - quite happy to keep uploads to a specific group away from the masses. Or just keeping them out of the general gallery

The group must remain free to join of course, can't be a closed shop or that'll end up in tears.

I was joking about the squirrels of course! I've not got the patience of a wildlife expert like Cheryl - they are made of different stuff to me!

My point about breadandshutter was that when I/one enters a new area of photography you see people doing stuff you are inspired by and to get positive feedback from them is a nice seal of approval.

Conversely, me leaving comments on them doing shots they're experts in is a bit like pissing in the wind... or is it? Maybe you get one message from a shot which is totally the opposite of what was intended and they've not seen it?

I'm wittering again

Been editing some horse shots, always has that effect on me.

Wish it was friday so i didn't have to go to work tomorrow.. arse

riprap007
riprap007  101568 forum posts England37 Constructive Critique Points
20 Nov 2009 - 12:18 PM

I had considered that the private option would not help, I have now reconsidered after spending too much time already today having to put up a defence of critical practice from people who have no interest in the discipline. So, a private but open area would be a good solution.

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
20 Nov 2009 - 6:16 PM

How about adding your name to this list. Could apply to the other meeting rooms as well.

Name-Dave
Images to appear in personal galleries = No
Images to appear in the meeting room only = Yes.


Name - Ade

Images to appear in personal galleries = No
Images to appear in the meeting room only = Yes.

Name - Nicriprap whos great idea it was.

Images to appear in personal galleries = No
Images to appear in the meeting room only = Yes.

And Nic, is this room going how you envisaged , or are we biasing standard crit a bit to much ?

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
20 Nov 2009 - 7:07 PM

i thought about it last night, i dont think i mean closed room as such in a way that no one else can look in or even leave a comment, just an enclosure for these images and they will not appear in the gallery or pfs (or will be in the pf in a seperate place)

and without saying it should be open for all to join in and even start new groups.
phil

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
20 Nov 2009 - 8:20 PM

Exactly Phil ,

Perhaps a simple option to upload a photo to a meeting room is all thats needed.

Thats where it lives then , and as we improve , we can upload our stuff as normal to our galleries.

Eventually the more popular meeting rooms / groups might get their own gallery or classification , a numbers game.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
21 Nov 2009 - 3:05 PM

May have a solution here....

How about using MODS on someone's photo

Here's how it'd work...

the group owner would upload a shot to the group.
When doing so, they click the "Allow Modifications" check box
When someone wants to add a shot to the discussion, they can open up the shot and add a modification to it.


The shot then doesn't appear in your portfolio or the gallery - to access it you just open the original shot and look at the mods Smile

I think that'll cover most of Eviscera's concerns?

Whatcha think?

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
21 Nov 2009 - 3:18 PM

Good brains Ade,

But , then , wouldnt you have a single main image (from the group owner) with lots of comments difficult to track back to the modders posts ?

Unless I'm being thick , I still think that if you choose to upload to a room like this , it simply gets excluded from your gallery , votes and all.

Id love to have posted my last in a meeting room , was trying a new pp combo , juxtaposing textures and HDR on the final result. It was experimental .

I kinda see the aesthetic and specialist rooms overlapping somehow one day, a new one for digital art/hdr/ , and as Phil said , "how and why" is coming.

But not till its offgallery , (hereinafter known as OG) !

Last Modified By Eviscera at 21 Nov 2009 - 3:26 PM
ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
21 Nov 2009 - 4:38 PM


Quote: Unless I'm being thick , I still think that if you choose to upload to a room like this , it simply gets excluded from your gallery , votes and all.

Yeah - I thought that was what you were after? A place to put photos where they won't appear in the gallery. We'd have to discuss and comment in this meeting area.

If you wanted to have votes and have the shot in your gallery, then just upload as normal like we are doing now.

I'm a bit confused as to what it is you're after - could you make a list of the features you'd like for this room?

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
21 Nov 2009 - 4:57 PM

Blimey Ade , I didnt think I was that convoluted Smile

1. You find a meeting room you are interested in. (Via the threads or however Pete promotes it)

2. You post an image as normal BUT , there's a dropdown to post it to one of these meeting rooms.

3. That image appears in the room , but not in your own gallery.

Then instead of the beleaguered crit team having to cover all genres , the room conversations would help.

Mods can be enabled as usual.

The "meetings" rooms (where everyone goes for a jolly) are fine ,

Just a specialist place like this , needs that one click option,

"You are about to post your image to a meeting room, this will disable votes and not appear in your main gallery , are you sure ? "

Last Modified By Eviscera at 21 Nov 2009 - 5:04 PM
NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
21 Nov 2009 - 8:16 PM

blimey
theres more dialogue on here than the pictures
Phil

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
21 Nov 2009 - 8:24 PM

Thats your rooms evolution Phil !

Take charge , you know my stance now.

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
21 Nov 2009 - 10:28 PM

i cant give you a room only Pete can do that, i dont disagree but we have to use what we have until we have Pete on board.
probably best to contact monday in working hours.
Phil

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
22 Nov 2009 - 10:25 AM

Mornin !

Its not that I want a room Phil (though I might need locking up occasionally) , Its simply an idea to have THIS room , and some of the more experimental meeting images confined to the discussion groups.

Just away from our main galleries if you choose to post here.

Might start an imaging room/workshop room one day if that happens.

Then we might get people like Mr U , and Alley etc onboard. Be great.

Have a good Sunday.

riprap007
riprap007  101568 forum posts England37 Constructive Critique Points
22 Nov 2009 - 11:11 AM

Hi, I had never given thought to the mechanics... as I don't know whats possible with the CMS or custom site build envisaged... so I'm exploring the potentials too

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
22 Nov 2009 - 11:21 AM

Clearer now Smile

It does raise a questions like "how many imaged can you upload per day"

1 to the gallery and one to each meeting?
Just one - choose from the 2?
ONe to the gallery and as many as you like in the meeting areas..

That kind of thing... just things that'd need to be considered by the team.

Essentially, the mods idea gives you most of what you're after at no extra cost to the site Smile The only thing "missing" is that the shot doesn't get its own "page" as such, so comments would have to be elsewhere - but as it's a discussion meeting, you could discuss it in the meeting page, as we're doing now.

You can find ways to do a lot of things within the constraints of the site - just needs a bit of lateral thinking and compromise and you get there Smile

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
22 Nov 2009 - 6:14 PM

Look , can I make it quite clear that im not interested in myself.

Im trying to encouarge people to join these meeting rooms as a learning tool or for creative expression.

I dont see what the difficulty is in being able to post an image to a pre-selected room rather than your own gallery.

Nothing "closed"

Surely its just a matter of getting the image linked to a room v.s your own gallery when you upload.


Usual 1 per day , allow mods on the upload per usual if you want , show variants , etc etc. Nothing changes. It just appears here (or in one of the other rooms)

If its well received , or you take on board the help , you can always post the same image to your gallery as a normal upload the next day or whenever.

Anyways, I feel a turn coming on so im off for a bit.

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
22 Nov 2009 - 9:23 PM

well this is all very nice discussion, but Pete has said twice that he likes the idea and if it rock and rolls there could be a more permanent solution found.

its all well keep discussing the policy and who wants what, but thats a bit like a European Parliement committee, or a world committee on global change, it go,s round and round but nothing happens.

why cant we just channel the energy into loading images and commenting and chatting on and about as many of them as possible, make the idea work , and then move forward. there are a lot of names on top and also a lot of images on here with little or no comments at all.

phil Sad

Last Modified By NEWMANP at 22 Nov 2009 - 9:24 PM
ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014807 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
22 Nov 2009 - 11:00 PM

I think this thread probably strengthens the case for some "room" concept.


Quote:
I dont see what the difficulty is in being able to post an image to a pre-selected room rather than your own gallery.

The problem is that they don't currently exist on EPZ and I've been trying to help by thinking of ways to get around that within the current site. I've been asking you questions to establish what it is you're after so I can help find a solution, not have a go or anything.

Maybe adding "meeting rooms" is a 5 minute job for the team, maybe it is a big job that needs several days or weeks to implement - IT's like that, stuff that seems trivial on the outside can be a nightmare.

Pete's liking it so lets hope it happens Smile

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
23 Nov 2009 - 9:50 AM

You are both right.

Looking at this room , this discussion seems to be deflecting the energy that should be going into the images themselves.

So , Ive said my piece , Id love to join , but wont for now.

No bitterness or dissapointment on my part , and yes Ade, I was also trying to help. Smile

I'll have a try at commenting on the images when I get back.

Regards.

Dave

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
23 Nov 2009 - 2:08 PM

my last one has been a featured image and i still cant get a bloody comment on it, it couldnt be more provocative as a picture---come on--where are you --help me Wink

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110266 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
24 Nov 2009 - 9:57 AM

I suspect that the novelty of this group is wearing off - there seem to be few "players" at the moment?

A shame because it was a good idea and could help us learn to look at and comment on images we normally wouldn't bother with (but it did require a bit of effort Wink )

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
24 Nov 2009 - 2:32 PM


Quote: I cant give you a room only Pete can do that, i dont disagree but we have to use what we have until we have Pete on board.

I'm not totally in to the idea of private rooms as the chat room soon turned into a bitching ground...similar thing happened to the PA team forum, where images where being discussed and it turned into stuff that might not have been said if the person was present. One thing was said that wasn't intended with any hurt, but was taken out of the private arena and shown to the person who then got upset and it caused lots of upset that should not have happened.

Also the idea of the images being public and in the gallery is that everyone sees them and gains from the discussion that may encourage them to get involved too.

We are going to have more uploads in V5 (for e2 members) so there will be options to bypass the gallery for those. They will still be public unless they are added to private albums.

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
24 Nov 2009 - 7:56 PM

Tbh ,

Perhaps this room has dried up as its not clear what its about.

Its called "First discussion group" but thats it.

But theres nothing in the top description of the room to define it as anything different from normal gallery crit.


Maybe a link to the critical discussion practice , Nics idea , (which Is why I joined) would have been useful.

Thats why it has a mix of eclectic images wanting interpretation along the CDG lines and , stuff that just appears to be asking for technical improvement.

Last Modified By Eviscera at 24 Nov 2009 - 7:58 PM
NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
24 Nov 2009 - 8:12 PM

its all down to whos in and whos out
Phil

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
24 Nov 2009 - 8:26 PM

Im in (though not posting) but really would enjoy to look and learn and add to comments on the images.

If the purpose was clear.

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
24 Nov 2009 - 9:11 PM

i had hoped people like you and riprap and others with a creative mind would be main players bringing in others to give people a chance to learn to critique to a higher level without the risk of being told to mind their own business from people who just like praise attached to their work.
somewhere to load a shot knowing that others tuned in would welcome critisism or discussion without having to be in the critique gallery where the crit tends to be aimed at beginners to be fair.
it matters not who else chips in in the gallery.

your idea of lodging them in a room and off the PF is fine by me but these things are up to Pete.

why dont you start the next room and guide it how you want, you have more standing with the membership on here than i, i dabble with bits and bobs but im a scaper really.

i was just reacting to both ripraps interesting but hard to follow experiments and a lot of moans in the forum that you could load a shot worthy of discussion but get no attention because it didnt include a sunset. that is the bit that needs addressing.

some of the images in the room got some sound commenting, but mainly those from people with a following anyway. i put my most controversial picture ever and get not a comment.

so to answer the purpose is what ever we want it to be. another place of activity and a place to make new friends.
Phil

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
24 Nov 2009 - 10:01 PM

Hey Phil ,

I just saw a new way of evaluating images that Nic postulated in a thread.

It led me here , I thought this was the place to see and contribute to that "advanced" way of thinking.

He is the expert in that field of thought , I came here to learn its application , make me think differently about my own and others work.

Ignore my "offgallery" suggestion , Its not important.

All I said was , the purpose of the room isnt clear from its description.

Just a bloody great link (or some narrative to the rooms purpose , at the top) would give joiners an idea.

Let me suggest an analogy

If I started a room called , lets say "Digital art and creative thinking"

Purpose - To improve basic technique , layering , and creative composites to composition , to "think outside the box"

It would be full in a few days. Im not being arrogant , I make loads of mistakes , so do many.

But the room would have clear direction and purpose.

Welcome - Anyone wishing to improve and learn from others !

Edit :

And btw Pete , I for one never ever took anything discussed in a PA room elsewhere. It was a position of trust.

Last Modified By Eviscera at 24 Nov 2009 - 10:11 PM
NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
24 Nov 2009 - 10:42 PM


Quote: If I started a room called , lets say "Digital art and creative thinking"

Purpose - To improve basic technique , layering , and creative composites to composition , to "think outside the box"

if you did that, i would think the whole idea had exploded into something real and exciting, something worth while. i just put some fuel on the fire.

i just wanted to push it forward, im not the worlds best at this sort of thing and to be honest a thread on a forum led to this same night prompted by a pm with Pete. no time to think the page was running in a day. how it develops is down to you guys. if Nic wanted to take it and use it as a vehicle then thats fine too.

its about time for a new meeting, why dont we talk or you set up the next one in a more suitable manner

im not taking hump here,
best regards,
Phil

Last Modified By NEWMANP at 24 Nov 2009 - 10:45 PM
Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
24 Nov 2009 - 10:54 PM

Well mate ,

I dont want to steal any thunder from Nic , I love his new way of analysis. Its all part of the creative process anyway.

And this room is in its early stages after all , It just wasnt to clear , jeez I cant even remember where the link to the though process is now.

Should be at the top of the page lol.

Lets see...

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318443 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
25 Nov 2009 - 3:27 PM


Quote: It led me here , I thought this was the place to see and contribute to that "advanced" way of thinking.

That's the idea. Phil kindly set that up...but it does need a driver...as all groups do. Someone to guide what goes on in the group to encourage newcomer to it via the forums and gallery to ensure people in the group have plenty to keep the m active. The good things with how this is set up is that the pics appear in the gallery so you don't waste your daily upload if it doesn't get lots of purposeful critique.
On flickr I'm told there are loads of groups, they seem to work...no reason why more cannot be added here. just needs people to develop the concept using the tools available. So Dave you could create your group and then encourage people to get involved and fill the "meeting room"

NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
25 Nov 2009 - 4:08 PM

Pete,
ive been talking to Eviscera and ive closed this page because its run its course and he is looking at starting another with Nic which is what i hoped for,
this was a good starting place and a lot has been said on here which is more than i expected. i hope it rolls forward.
Phil

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
25 Nov 2009 - 6:14 PM

Evenin , just got in.

Yeah , sure I'll start a room. Most of my favs are the compo arty types anyway , and Ill try and get people like Mr U , Molliedog et al as guest processors lol.

But --- Now Ive realised this is Phils room , but based on an interest in Nics thinking , I think it fair to wait till Nic has had something to say.

He may want (or ask Phil ) to open a second discussion group.

Im not working on anything with him per-se , his concept is different from my proposal.

I'll pm him and ask him to add closure.

stevie
stevie e2 Member 101198 forum postsstevie vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
26 Nov 2009 - 12:39 PM

I've just put my name down because I'd like to see how it all works first - I'd really like to establish a travel photography discussion group but wanted to look at another one first. Hope that's OK
Steve

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81104 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
26 Nov 2009 - 6:52 PM

Thats fine Stevie , theres a main forum discussion going on and someones already started a fashion room . So would be great if you wanted to start a travel section.

Be clear what its about though, general interest , through to the times for mono , that sort of thing.

Im pming a few potential attendees for the digi creative place.

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