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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
26 Aug 2011 - 9:51 AM

if you right click on the uploaded photo and choose "Copy URL", then paste that into the upload file box, it will upload the image to this group

saves you having to manually copy the photo to your computer Smile

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26 Aug 2011 - 7:52 AM

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pablo69
pablo69  6200 forum posts England7 Constructive Critique Points
26 Aug 2011 - 7:52 AM

Grin thanks that works

MediumSizeUnavailable

as far as I know you can't (but I may be wrong) post it directly from your portfolio to this group. So just save the image in your portfolio on your desktop (computer), after which you can upload it from your computer to the group. I know, bit of a detour, but it's the trip that matters, not the destination Wink

pablo69
pablo69  6200 forum posts England7 Constructive Critique Points
25 Aug 2011 - 1:01 PM

How can I add a picture that is already on galley to the photos here, while not at the pc with the original image on it?

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
15 Aug 2011 - 6:57 PM


Quote: I wonder if this Group could also have guest themes such as landscapes etc to draw out some variety ?

it'd be nice to have more than 1 photo a day, never mind a theme Wink

JackAllTog
JackAllTog e2 Member 53615 forum postsJackAllTog vcard United Kingdom58 Constructive Critique Points
15 Aug 2011 - 6:53 PM

I wonder if this Group could also have guest themes such as landscapes etc to draw out some variety ?

JackAllTog
JackAllTog e2 Member 53615 forum postsJackAllTog vcard United Kingdom58 Constructive Critique Points
15 Aug 2011 - 6:50 PM

I wonder if this group could have regular guest themes as well, maybe landscape, street etc to pull out some vairity?

LazFair
LazFair  5 United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
2 Jan 2011 - 4:52 PM

It won't work on the mac. I vote for the copy someone else's ☻.

Glad to have found this group - now I can get photo's honestly dissected coz lets face it - I don't have a clue!

Geraint
Geraint  8715 forum posts Wales34 Constructive Critique Points
26 Aug 2010 - 9:32 AM

Good to see you on board Fred. Get stuck in.

funkeldink
funkeldink  101592 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
26 Aug 2010 - 5:52 AM

çµ∆†

ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
22 Aug 2010 - 8:50 PM

☻Ϧ♣♠♥?þ¨┴RÔø◘

That is cool - thank you so much for this - I will have fun ... doing my bullets.

Jestertheclown
22 Aug 2010 - 3:06 PM

All is revealed . . . !

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
22 Aug 2010 - 2:56 PM

ah - that's how it works then?

I just copied the symbols into this box, then it came up with that &# thing...

looks more simple with the alt key

Jestertheclown
22 Aug 2010 - 2:16 PM


Quote: ah - so you type in "&#" followed by the code

Not with you Ade?

You type in Alt (and hold it down) followed by the code. Bullet point = Alt 7 •••••••

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
22 Aug 2010 - 12:56 PM

ah - so you type in "&#" followed by the code

•

or just copy someone elses ☻ ♥

Jestertheclown
21 Aug 2010 - 9:36 PM

I was trying to find out how to type ©, so I googled it.

(© is Alt 0169 if you ever need it).

Bren.

Last Modified By Jestertheclown at 21 Aug 2010 - 9:38 PM
ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 9:13 PM

How

The

Hell

Did

You

Do

That?

Paintman
Paintman e2 Member 8855 forum postsPaintman vcard United Kingdom173 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 7:55 PM











I think I've cracked it☼

Jestertheclown
21 Aug 2010 - 1:12 PM

•
•
•
•
•

Alt 7

. . .if you can be bothered!

Last Modified By Jestertheclown at 21 Aug 2010 - 1:12 PM
Jestertheclown
21 Aug 2010 - 1:07 PM

Geraint;

Spot on.

Bren.

Geraint
Geraint  8715 forum posts Wales34 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 1:03 PM

I agree with trying to keep things concise, but sometimes I can't help drifting off with longer comments...If people do write longer critiques I don't think it's a problem, because this group is so refreshing - it's obvious that there is a desire and a need for good critique. Let's wait and see how things develop, but keep in mind that we should be concise and to the point in general?

Jestertheclown
21 Aug 2010 - 12:18 PM


Quote: Well all I can do (all any of us can do) is be a short and to the point as we can - if that means a slightly meandering and overlong, in some eyes, critique I think this just has to be accepted.


I don't think that a longer critique is a problem and I certainly find it acceptable so long as it doesn't turn into "War and Peace".
I also agree that it should be OK to say that we like a shot but since this group's supposed to be about what's not so good then then lets keep those comments to "I like this" without too much elaboration.
If people want to hear how good their shots are, they can post them in the main gallery.

Bren.

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64429 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 12:13 PM

- You can use a dash - instead of a bullet ketch.
- I'll give it a try but if I like something then I'm going to say so.

ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 12:04 PM

Well all I can do (all any of us can do) is be a short and to the point as we can - if that means a slightly meandering and overlong, in some eyes, critique I think this just has to be accepted.

I for one will make a conscious effort to start using bullet points (although there are no BP's on teh comment box - can we fix that perhaps?) but I am not going to change my writing style or my approach to critique you will be disappointed to hear.

Viva la bullet!!!

Jestertheclown
21 Aug 2010 - 11:54 AM


Quote:
My suggestion would be... keep the critique as concise and direct as possible to keep within the spirit of the group, but not so as your own personality is compromised. If you want to expand a point, expand it. But if you want to write a lot of in depth critique, maybe take that to the CG, or see if the photographer has put the same image in the main gallery and expand on it there.

That pretty much sums up what I've been trying to say.

We could all simply post our images here and in the main gallery and include a link which then covers both bases which gives people the option to comment at greater length should they want to.
The downside of that is that the poster will be faced with a mixture of hard hitting genuine remarks and (almost certainly) a meaningless load of old flannel on the same image.
Probably better to post it in the Critique Gallery where the "cracking colour" remarks are rare.
Whatever people feel they should do, I still think that whatever we say in here needs to be as short and to the point as it can be.

Bren.

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 11:39 AM

I wasn't actually going to start a new group Wink

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110265 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 11:21 AM


Quote: about what people really like in a shot.


So long as it is explained its a valid part of any critique

SteveCharles
21 Aug 2010 - 11:18 AM

I had this conversation with Ade in forum about being able to expand the critique beyond bullet points, and he suggested then that I start a different group (which I initially took the wrong way!). But TBH, I think another honest critique group would just confuse things a bit and generate more flack from those who don't understand groups and think we're detracting from the CG than this one does now.

I have in mind a kind of 'conceptual discussion' group that doesn't revolve around the technical aspects and that can go quite in-depth, so it would be more specialised and less similar to this group. But the 'reality' group is doing that kind of thing and I want to wait for the groups thing to be better established and accepted first.

My suggestion would be... keep the critique as concise and direct as possible to keep within the spirit of the group, but not so as your own personality is compromised. If you want to expand a point, expand it. But if you want to write a lot of in depth critique, maybe take that to the CG, or see if the photographer has put the same image in the main gallery and expand on it there. I don't know. I don't think anyone's going to kick you out of the group for writing some longer critiques.

ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 10:56 AM

Tell you what Ade - maybe I should start up the other group given that I do feel a little responsible for buggering up the original intention - I might call it 'pseuds corner' although I hasten to add the lengthy comments I have seen on here are anything but pseudo.

The only trouble is that I think we are very early in development of the general idea to start having a division - let the thing grow a little more and see how it evolves further - then look at maybe 'Tell it like it is' - to the point gallery and extended critique gallery (could we even do this under the single group banner I wonder?)

Cheers Smile

Last Modified By ketch at 21 Aug 2010 - 10:56 AM
ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 10:31 AM

well I got back after playing a gig last night after being away from group for a day or 2 and just saw so much text... couldn't be bothered reading it, just seemed like long comments you'd get in any gallery.

sure they're helpful and all that - but the short, punchy, to the point "tell it how it is" comments are very few and far between.

as I say, things evolve and if that's how people want to go forward, then fair enough - it's more important that it keeps going than kicking up a fuss Smile

I may start a "Bulletpoint Comments Only" group though Wink

ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 10:12 AM

Sorry guys - I am sure I am one of the worst culprits - I think I have managed two critiques with bullet points but even then I had about ten of the things.

It is just my way - I tend to 'talk the hind leg of a donkey' too but it is forged in enthusiasm for something I love. Also we do need to be able to accomodate the non technical critiques (like mine most of the time) which don't lend themselves to quick punchy notes at least not without falling back into the 'nice light' trap.

This group is a brilliant development - but I suspect has moved away from where Ade wished it to be - if I have contravened the rules of the den I am so sorry but things do evolve.

Cheers

SteveCharles
21 Aug 2010 - 9:46 AM

Love the way people are using phrases like 'bear pit' and 'brutal'. I've seen critique threads / groups elsewhere that would obviously make some of you guys' eyes water! This is no bear pit, believe me...

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
21 Aug 2010 - 1:59 AM

yeah - there's a lot of words appearing

the idea was to "tell us as it is" in a concise form - now many of the comments are pretty long and wooly, and often go on about what people really like in a shot.

I guess things evolve

glad its popular though Smile

Jestertheclown
21 Aug 2010 - 12:01 AM

It looks as if we're going to be moving away from the bullet points approach whether it's intentional or not.
It would seem that there's a growing feeling that people would like to say a bit more than a bullet point can convey.
That's OK, I guess, we're all different after all and I had envisaged something along those lines happening from the start.
Just let's try to keep it brief. The last thing this group need now is to start losing its edge.
It's obvious from the popularity of the group that there's a market for the brutal stuff. I'd hate to see it being diluted.

Bren.

ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
20 Aug 2010 - 11:43 PM

A woman after my own heart - I completely endorse these sentiments ...

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64429 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
20 Aug 2010 - 9:05 PM

I like this site very much too, but mostly I don't care about whether something's out of focus or isn't technically perfect. I look at the aesthetic rather than pick at the detail. Some of the best photographers in the world would fall badly by the wayside if you disected them forensically, and I always put emotion and gut feeling before any technical aspect. I'd hope that people on here would do the same because otherwise every image would be expected to conform to some kind of Rule, which is against everything I believe in.

Jestertheclown
20 Aug 2010 - 8:42 PM


Quote: I like this group and hope it lasts a long time, it's the kind of thing I originally joined epz for.

I'll go along with that.

Paintman
Paintman e2 Member 8855 forum postsPaintman vcard United Kingdom173 Constructive Critique Points
20 Aug 2010 - 5:57 PM

I think the difference between this group and the CG is that people here genuinely want to be told the no-holds barred truth as seen by others and have joined this group knowing it's a bear pit. The critiques in this group are better, IMO, and to the point because everyone who's joined this group feel they need something more than the CG can give and have self-selected themselves for that purpose. Everyone here needs to know in order to progress in their photography.

I like this group and hope it lasts a long time, it's the kind of thing I originally joined epz for.

Photogeek
Photogeek  9605 forum posts Wales6 Constructive Critique Points
20 Aug 2010 - 5:15 PM

I've commented more on this group since its formation that I have in the previous 4 or 5 months on the main gallery . . . I hope the group stays as it is, and not become a 'real' critique gallery . . . as I will go back into hiding. . . . There are people out there who ask for critique about why something doesn't work . . . but don't want to know at all . . . and become quite nasty with it. . . . I haven't got time to waste on those people, so I'm happy to be here . . . who know this may just inspire me to pick my camera up again . . . something I've not done in 12 months

ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
20 Aug 2010 - 4:59 PM

Yes exactly the sort of culture shift I had in mind - don't mind which route we go down but I think there may be a few sensative souls who are not here but are still on the CG - so maybe the two do need to run in tandem at least for a while?

What we call the second real critique gallery would be important because I am sure Pete would not want it to undermine the existing CG - so real critique was advanced just as a working title.

Any ideas?

SteveCharles
20 Aug 2010 - 3:42 PM

I did wonder whether this group might become popular enough in time (and it's only been going a week or so) to trigger a cultural shift that makes it acceptable to take this approach in the main or CG. In my mind, this is what the CG should always have been. The group has clearly uncovered a desire among members for some no BS critique.

A critique gallery and a co-exisiting 'real critique' gallery looks a bit daft, but if people felt they were able to make this sort of critique in the existing CG then it would probably be used as such. This group could then go back to being a sort of hardcore, bullet point alternative.

Jestertheclown
20 Aug 2010 - 3:30 PM


Quote: a Real Critique Gallery - where all the search and record and last comments functions work. Could this brilliant initiative perhaps be transferred and given its own gallery space?

I'm all for that idea.

To be able to continue as we are here but with the bells and whistles of the CG.

ketch
ketch e2 Member 6770 forum postsketch vcard Turks and Caicos Islands50 Constructive Critique Points
20 Aug 2010 - 2:29 PM

Couple of concerns or thoughts really:

1. Are we getting just a little too cosy with our comments - not that I am advocating WW3 but we need a little more spice and controversy maybe?

2. I refuse to be bound to the technical comment's only idea - I like to look at images and comment about how they look and how they make me feel - some of this gets wrapped up in the technical but an awful lot of it is to do with subjective assessment of the merit of an image.

3. I am having enormous difficulty sticking to bullett points - is this really necessary and was it done to try and distinguish 'Tell It Like It IS' from the Critique Gallery?

4. There are some pretty sound images being uploaded where it is useful to level some praise - I don't think we need to hold back doing this - eg we should feel free to make positive as well as negative comments - again I suspect maybe this was a device to keep TILII distinct from CG?

5 This is one of the best developments on the site fro a very long time - it is a shame in some ways that this is not happening on the CG or indeed a Real Critique Gallery - where all the search and record and last comments functions work. Could this brilliant initiative perhaps be transferred and given its own gallery space?

devlin
devlin  4651 forum posts India39 Constructive Critique Points
19 Aug 2010 - 4:20 PM

Just started today..should be more active going forward Smile

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64429 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
19 Aug 2010 - 4:15 PM

You've already contributed Jester. I was thinking more about all those that hadn't uploaded anything yet. Smile

Jestertheclown
19 Aug 2010 - 4:13 PM

I'm busy elsewhere.

(That would have been a bullet point but I don't know how to insert one on here!)

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64429 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
19 Aug 2010 - 4:07 PM

Where is everybody? 64 members and only a handful posting and commenting. So, who's been scaring people off? Nominations on a postcard please.
Grin

Last Modified By SlowSong at 19 Aug 2010 - 4:09 PM
steve_kershaw
19 Aug 2010 - 12:41 AM

the critique gallery and team has tried for years to achieve what this group is doing, its just a size thingWink

its good to see how obvious issues are being picked up early, but even more interesting is how different peopes opinions are on subjective matter,

why cant we say if we cant find fault? tell it how it is shouldnt mean we cant comment on a photo we like Smile

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 1:43 PM

well it depends on the shot - sometimes there are just one or 2 obvious things we'd all comment on, but the one with the people with the old fashioned costumes attracted different thoughts.

I thought the light looked wierd and didn't notice the sign in the background, whereas other said teh exact reverse!

this is why getting a mix of opinion is well worth while

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64429 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
18 Aug 2010 - 9:14 AM

Actually, I think we all seem to be fairly uniform in many of our comments.

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110265 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 10:37 PM

What is proving facinating for me is how we can all look at the same image and see it in such totally different ways.
I suspect a lot of it may be to do with how we have "trained" our eyes to see images related to our preferred genre of photography, whatever the reason its quite a marked difference

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
17 Aug 2010 - 12:25 PM

Excellent point Steve - cheers Smile

I've just posted something along those lines in the group forum

Lets try our best to be objective about points in a shot which could be improved, not just "swear horrible" for the sake of it

SteveCharles
17 Aug 2010 - 12:01 PM

Slowsong has a good point, I just made this comment on one of the picures in the group but I think it's appropriate to this discussion. An interesting point about the group that I was thinking about yesterday is that it's easy to fall into the trap of being overly negative about a picture just because it's in the tell it like it is group. You can be negative about any picture. Just because you can, does it mean you should?

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64429 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
16 Aug 2010 - 6:44 PM


Quote: So in answer to the question, my judgement criteria is a mix of:
- Do i like it/What can i see wrong with it from my POV.
- What can i see may be wrong from a tech POV.
- How might it have been made better assuming other unknown restrictions were not present.
- And maybe how does the photo make me feel if i'm in an open mood.

With a lot of street photography though you don't always have time to consider all those things but viewers have all the time in the world to spot errors and to make suggestions. And we might change our opinions from day to day. It's all very arbitrary, but it's good to get honest opinions. I think this is probably one of the most useful places on EPZ.

Smile

Last Modified By SlowSong at 16 Aug 2010 - 6:45 PM
JackAllTog
JackAllTog e2 Member 53615 forum postsJackAllTog vcard United Kingdom58 Constructive Critique Points
16 Aug 2010 - 5:52 PM

Hearts and souls can get dashed on the rocks in here with each of us motivated by and admiring different aspects of photography. Our photo's we will not please all the people all of the time and not all viewers will not have the understanding of the situation or effort required to get the photo - some of my fav photos bring back memories of getting to the shot yet the photo is sometimes crap - i'm enjoying the memory about taking the photo not the photo itsself.
I too got a few of those "whats the story" comments and yep that was not the point of my picture to me; But it also made me consider what my picture means to others and as i want others to also enjoy/respond to my photo's i need to find something for them too.
So in answer to the question, my judgement criteria is a mix of:
- Do i like it/What can i see wrong with it from my POV.
- What can i see may be wrong from a tech POV.
- How might it have been made better assuming other unknown restrictions were not present.
- And maybe how does the photo make me feel if i'm in an open mood.
Cheers

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64429 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
16 Aug 2010 - 3:22 PM

This site is really useful and I'm really enjoying it, but what sort of criteria are we using to judge people's pictures? Some I really like, and others I just don't but that doesn't mean they're rubbish pictures. Just not my sort of thing. The photographer though might have put his heart and soul into it but we'd never know as we weren't there feeling and seeing as they did.

If we're being purely technical that's easier to do, but when people mention "what's the story", well, mostly there isn't one. We just see a scene, like it and snap it, with attention to composition, exposure etc. of course. In the end it's a subjective opinion isn't it?

My favourite photographer is Robert Frank but I'd hardly dismiss any of his work because it didn't tell a story - most of it looks very haphazard, but that's the charm.

Whad'ya think? Any hints?
Smile

brian1208
brian1208 e2 Member 1110265 forum postsbrian1208 vcard United Kingdom12 Constructive Critique Points
16 Aug 2010 - 11:59 AM

Loaded one up for dissection

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64429 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
14 Aug 2010 - 7:20 PM


Quote: I was certainly guilty of that with my first one!

Yeah, me to. But I'm going to be serious from now on.
Smile

Jestertheclown
14 Aug 2010 - 3:51 PM


Quote: I think this group will prove to be more useful if people post pictures they think are good, rather than pictures they know are bad just for the fun of getting a slating.

I was certainly guilty of that with my first one!

The way I'd like to see it develop would be for it to become a kind of Critique Gallery but without the need to be nice all the time.
I've had some really useful and helpful responses in the CG but sometimes you do need too pick through the answer to find out what's really being said.
It's still early days for the group but it seems, to me at least, that people are taking notice, even if they aren't taking part.
It's got a passing mention in a couple of other threads so it's obviously generating some interest.
As you say Steve, this is a good group and joining it might mean my remaining a member of the site. Just lately, I haven't found much else here to keep me here.

Jester.

SteveCharles
14 Aug 2010 - 10:50 AM

Good group, this has brought me back to EPZ. Can I just make a suggestion? I think this group will prove to be more useful if people post pictures they think are good, rather than pictures they know are bad just for the fun of getting a slating.

steve_kershaw
14 Aug 2010 - 1:03 AM

this group is a good example of what epz is all about, well done Ade, epz suffers from its success, not a bad thing but you miss the personal interaction from known members in the gallery, the groups bring back the family atmosphere lacking in the gallery, and for me the introduction of the groups and the ability to post images in the threads have been the biggest improvement in the site since it got big

Paul Morgan
Paul Morgan e2 Member 1315335 forum postsPaul Morgan vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
13 Aug 2010 - 8:42 PM


Quote: where has the term bombed come from, who claims to be the first user?

Any of you know of a quick short cut so I can port the whole of my portfolio in one hit.

User_Removed
13 Aug 2010 - 9:16 AM

Great idea for a group. I hope we can keep the interest on the pictures rather than trying to work out why they didn't get votes in the gallery. I'm looking forward to some real criticism. Tongue

steve_kershaw
12 Aug 2010 - 11:23 PM

where has the term bombed come from, who claims to be the first user?

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014805 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
12 Aug 2010 - 10:39 PM

.....you can comment on photos other than mine you know Wink

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