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" Willow Tit or Marsh Tit"

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Good evening folks,
A question for you all tonight. I have for a while been wondering if all my Willows are
Willows or some of them Marsh?.
Mossy raised the question yesterday, and over the last few months several of my colleagues at
the Norfolk Naturalists Society have also doubted that I could have a location such as mine devoid of Marsh tits.
I have compared many pictures taken by myself and I can't find any conclusive proof.
Yesterdays upload raised the question again and tonight's image was taken during the same session, but not of the same bird.
Take a look at the two images and if your would like to offer an opinion I would be glad to here it.
Many thanks for the C&C's on yesterdays Willow/Marsh tit.
Colin

Brand:Canon
Camera:Canon EOS 50D
Lens:EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
Recording media:RAW (digital)
Date Taken:2 Feb 2013 - 1:45 PM
Focal Length:400mm
Lens Max Aperture:f/5.7
Aperture:f/5.6
Shutter Speed:1/125sec
Exposure Comp:0.0
ISO:800
Exposure Mode:Aperture-priority AE
Metering Mode:Center-weighted average
Flash:Off, Did not fire
White Balance:Custom
Title:" Willow Tit or Marsh Tit"
Username:Norfolkboy Norfolkboy
Uploaded:6 Feb 2013 - 6:17 PM
Tags:British birds, Parus montanus, Wildlife / nature, Willow tit
Votes:57

Comments

christinecilia
christinecilia e2 Member 3christinecilia vcard England
6 Feb 2013 - 6:19 PM

dont no but great shot. christineGrinGrinGrinGrin

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baxster
baxster e2 Member 7baxster vcard England
6 Feb 2013 - 6:33 PM

Cracking capture.
Ian

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DicksPics
DicksPics e2 Member 3DicksPics vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 6:50 PM

Superb!

****

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Graham_P
Graham_P e2 Member 8Graham_P vcard United Kingdom19 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 6:52 PM

Nicely captured Colin,
There is always a lot of discussion regarding the two species as they are so similar.
Are you aware of the "white patch" at the base of the upper mandible, it's thought that this occurs on the Marsh Tit but the Willow Tit has a plain black beak. The one in this image definately has the white patch so I would guess Marsh Tit.

http://blx1.bto.org/pdf/ringmigration/24_2/broughton1.pdf

Graham

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NigelKiteley
NigelKiteley e2 Member 5NigelKiteley vcard 1 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 6:52 PM

I'm going for Marsh Tit due to the pale patch at the base of the beak. I've just had another look at your image from yesterday and i agree with mossy on that one too.

Great image btw!

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tomcat
tomcat e2 Member 96185 forum poststomcat vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 7:04 PM

I would say without doubt, that yesterday's is a Willow
Not sure about this oneSmile

At the woods, my Marshies are in and out in a flash, where as the Willows hang around and cram as much seed as possible into their mouth - you have seen the imagesGrin

The additional white barring on the wing feathers is another feature of the Willows
Another tip, which I only heard about recently, is that the Willows have a slightly forked tail - your image of yesterday shows this

They do reckon that the Willow has the untidy/scruffy bib and looks more bullish in the neck
I suppose the dead give away is the call, if they decide to burst into song

I also note, that the Marshies look as if they have a new dinner suit on - always pristine looking, where in fact the Willows do look a tad scruffy at timesGrin

I would go with your gut feeling, though I have had them, not recently, together on the same perch and you can spot the difference easily then

Just looked at the RSPB site and if you bring up a Marshy, then look at the changing images above, then do the same for the Willow, there is a noticeable difference

Hope all this helps


Adrian

Last Modified By tomcat at 6 Feb 2013 - 7:04 PM

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bobhowell
bobhowell e2 Member 2bobhowell vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 7:04 PM

Hi I think its the marsh but for me only by looking in the book and comparing the bib size? but no expert.. good luck such a great photo also. Bob

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bricurtis
bricurtis e2 Member 91929 forum postsbricurtis vcard England48 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 7:09 PM

I always go by the size of the black bib Colin - this looks to be a small one so I will go with Marsh Tit too.
Brian.

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achieverswales
achieverswales e2 Member 4achieverswales vcard Wales101 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 7:10 PM

Not sure Colin but a cracker of a capture.

Regards

Trev.

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saeidNL
saeidNL e2 Member 5saeidNL vcard Netherlands3 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 7:11 PM

Excellent and lovely capture.
saeid

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JuBarney
JuBarney e2 Member 3JuBarney vcard United Kingdom3 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 7:35 PM

A really lovely capture
Ju

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PhilSingleton
PhilSingleton e2 Member 2PhilSingleton vcard United Kingdom4 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 7:36 PM

Not too sure as to the identity of each bird. But the image tonight is of the same high quality as yesterday's.
Phil.

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richmowil
richmowil e2 Member 5279 forum postsrichmowil vcard England1 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 7:37 PM

Great Capture. Like it a lot - ID I would need to see the outer primaries before I took a stab at it!

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Fefe
Fefe e2 Member 3Fefe vcard United Kingdom30 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 8:03 PM

Not a clueTongue.................. Lovely whateverGrin
Diane

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jaymark1
jaymark1 e2 Member 6jaymark1 vcard United Kingdom
6 Feb 2013 - 8:31 PM

Excellent capture Colin.

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Meheecho
Meheecho e2 Member 2275 forum postsMeheecho vcard United Kingdom
6 Feb 2013 - 9:15 PM

I've always been told that you go by the bib but they are so fleeting it is really hard to ID but that said it is still a great capture
Steve

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Scuttleatflordon
Scuttleatflordon e2 Member 3Scuttleatflordon vcard England
6 Feb 2013 - 9:28 PM

A stunning image.Smile
Peter.

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mossy
mossy e2 Member 146 forum postsmossy vcard England1 Constructive Critique Points
6 Feb 2013 - 11:14 PM

Marsh tit for me, did reply to your PM hope it helps.

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M_squared
M_squared e2 Member 3M_squared vcard United Kingdom
7 Feb 2013 - 9:34 AM

On what's visible here 'white patch' + very small bib I think we can says this is a Marsh Tit.
The call is the most reliable ID.

It's a great image.

Malcolm

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teocali
teocali e2 Member 6261 forum poststeocali vcard England18 Constructive Critique Points
7 Feb 2013 - 9:44 AM

Cracking capture of what I would say is a Marsh Tit, Colin. Very interesting reading off the link provided by Graham_P Smile
Sylvia

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BIGRY1
BIGRY1 e2 Member 2BIGRY1 vcard United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
7 Feb 2013 - 3:29 PM

I haven't got a clue which one it is but this is a cracking image, one of your better ones IMO!GrinGrinGrinGrinGrin
Ryan

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annettep38
annettep38 e2 Member 3188 forum postsannettep38 vcard France32 Constructive Critique Points
7 Feb 2013 - 3:52 PM

Well we don't get willow tits so no help from me I'm afraid
but it is a fantastic capture!!

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Mike_Smith
Mike_Smith e2 Member 7212 forum postsMike_Smith vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
7 Feb 2013 - 5:49 PM

Cracking shot Col, always been debatable between the two

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