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Bye-bye Buachaille

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One of my favourite places in the world - so I just had to upload one of my captures of it. It's hard to say goodbye to something so beautiful, but Jacqueline and I spent quite some time there this weekend, and I loved enjoying that view for so long.

Anyway - let's hear what you think of this. Comments and mods welcome!

Edit: According to a viewer (who shall remain anonymous) my photos, including this one, are "muddy, murky and not crisp" and without "much detail". I'm not looking to defend myself, I just want to improve. Does anyone else think this, and especially about this photo? And if so, any ideas as to how to avoid it? Any suggestions welcome!!!

Edit no. 2: Oops, I just looked at the large version, and I would agree with this myself. I never delete an image after people have commented on it, so I'll leave it for now, but I'm going back to my original file and see what went wrong. Watch this space...

Camera:Canon EOS 20D
Lens:Sigma 10-20mm + Filters
Recording media:RAW (digital)
Title:Bye-bye Buachaille
Username:conrad conrad
Uploaded:11 Nov 2008 - 9:38 PM
Tags:2008, Buachaille, Buachaille etive mor, Bye, Farewell, General, Glencoe, Landscape / travel, Mountain, Rowardennan, Scotland, Snow, Waterfall
VS Mode Rating 102 (100% won)
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Votes:43
Group Event:Rowardennans last
Modifications wanted Modifications Welcome (Upload a Modification)

Comments

nuts
nuts  7 Netherlands
11 Nov 2008 - 9:41 PM

gr8 shot of this icon well done aj

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cassiecat
cassiecat  639 forum posts England46 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2008 - 9:52 PM

very nice.lesley

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rowarrior
rowarrior  64350 forum posts Scotland9 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2008 - 9:52 PM

Nicely done Conrad, although you do make it sound like you're never, ever coming back here again!

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conrad
conrad  910873 forum posts116 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2008 - 9:54 PM

That's possible, I just don't know (see my blog...).

Thanks for the comments so far!

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colin
colin  9697 forum posts Scotland5 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2008 - 9:54 PM

Classic composition, Conrad, but lovely as always. Nicely exposed.
It was nice to chat to you on Saturday night.
Best wishes.Colin

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conrad
conrad  910873 forum posts116 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2008 - 9:58 PM

Thanks, Colin!

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ringyneck
ringyneck  7304 forum posts United Kingdom18 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2008 - 10:07 PM

............ "muddy, murky and not crisp.......sounds like my shots.

Hope you manage to sort it out....look forward to the "after" upload.

keith

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richardwheel
11 Nov 2008 - 10:10 PM

It looks a touch soft from the large version but I'd say the tones look about right - I was stood next to you around this time wasn't I?

nice seeing you again

rich

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pink
pink  111387 forum posts United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2008 - 10:29 PM

looks a touch soft but I still like it a lot

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BERTRAM
BERTRAM  6 United Kingdom
11 Nov 2008 - 10:48 PM

Excellent shot.
Dave

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NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61583 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2008 - 10:52 PMConstructive Critique!This comment was flagged as constructive critique! 

looks good to me, a nice bit of work in the water, a secondary sharpen after reduction may be a slight improvement. its a classic composition hat just cant fail and you have been double lucky to get the bit of snow on the mountain, the lack of direct light has been a double bonus to enable the lovely exposure in the water.
like it a lot,
Phil

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looboss
looboss  73124 forum posts United Kingdom7 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2008 - 10:56 PM

Its wonderfull image so much bettter thant what I got! and that is rained upon without mercy Sad

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SuperRoo
SuperRoo  763 forum posts Australia1 Constructive Critique Points
11 Nov 2008 - 11:22 PMConstructive Critique!This comment was flagged as constructive critique! 

Hi Conrad... good to catch up with you and Jacqueline again over the weekend.

Have to agree with others that the large version looks a little soft (although that could just be due to the way you have resized it) but otherwise, it is spot on for composition, colour and exposure and overall is a great shot. The only other thing I would mention is the rain spot in the trees on the left, but I'm sure you are working on removing that already.

I look forward to seeing more.

Cheers

Paul

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tomf148
tomf148  6 Ireland
11 Nov 2008 - 11:25 PM

One of the great places to take photos - this image is fantastic- I just wish it was me who took it . Excellent

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wvmountaineers
12 Nov 2008 - 5:38 AM

I think it is a terrific shot.

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JohnParminter
12 Nov 2008 - 9:14 AMConstructive Critique!This comment was flagged as constructive critique! 

I don't think this one or any of your pf are particularly muddy or murky Conrad but I would tend to say that some of the random ones I looked at do lack a bit of crispness/sharpness. This one in particular looks soft especially large which may account for the slight lack in detail overall. May be worth reviewing your sharpening process. I used to do all my sharpening in Elements from my D200 but now I have a D300 I just leave it on max sharpness in camera and hardly ever use USM in Elements now.
Hope this helps.
I should add that I like the shot for it's subdued tones and water movement.
John

Last Modified By JohnParminter at 12 Nov 2008 - 9:15 AM

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Chriscj
Chriscj  896 forum posts England1 Constructive Critique Points
12 Nov 2008 - 10:47 AM

You might want to offer a people a chance to do there thing to it. I think you can learn loads more seeing what other people do after you have tried yourself. Smile

Chris

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Tooth
Tooth  95772 forum posts Ireland227 Constructive Critique Points
12 Nov 2008 - 11:22 AMConstructive Critique!This comment was flagged as constructive critique! 

Hi Conrad, great to see the two of you again...

A classic shot of a well-worn view, with subtle light. Is it muddy and murky? No I don't think so, but maybe a bit of judicious dodging and burning or similar technique could pull a bit more detail out of the darker places.. (PM me for a different but better technique)

As for being a bit soft, check if your original is as soft. if niot, it could be the compression built into the uploading process that's doing it. Save as Jpeg for loading , then open and do a slight sharpen (maybe 30%) and sdave again and then upload - it can make a big difference

Anyway nice work, what do they call that funny opointy hill anyway? Smile

Stephen

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jaktis
jaktis e2 Member 1081 forum postsjaktis vcard Sweden
12 Nov 2008 - 11:48 AM

It sure is a great view

Peter

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conrad
conrad  910873 forum posts116 Constructive Critique Points
12 Nov 2008 - 12:18 PM

Thanks, everyone!


Quote: You might want to offer a people a chance to do there thing to it. I think you can learn loads more seeing what other people do after you have tried yourself. Chris

I'm considering doing a new upload and including the original as one of the versions, so people can mod from the original. Good idea, thanks.


Quote: I was stood next to you around this time wasn't I?

I think that must have been around this time posssibly, yes. Not sure, I was there for 2,5 hours trying to get the right conditions and composition. It was good to see you too, Richard.


Quote: a secondary sharpen after reduction may be a slight improvement

Interesting, I never thought of that possibility (having been accused of oversharpening a few times...), but it could be an option - thanks!


Quote: the rain spot in the trees on the left

Oops, missed that in cleaning up - thanks! (Has to be a snow spot, actually. Or hail.)


Quote: I just leave it on max sharpness in camera and hardly ever use USM in Elements now.

Really? That surprises me. Most people on here do seem to use the post-processing cycle to do their sharpening. Off to have a look at the camera manual... Thanks!


Quote: Save as Jpeg for loading , then open and do a slight sharpen (maybe 30%) and sdave again and then upload - it can make a big difference

Well, this has been a really interesting exercise, I'm almost glad I uploaded a 'mistake'. I'm reading things I never knew before. Why is this better than doing it while it's still a .psd file?

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conrad
conrad  910873 forum posts116 Constructive Critique Points
12 Nov 2008 - 12:38 PM

For those who are interested, here's Stephen's reply to my question just above this post:

"... maybe I missed a bit - i don't mean sharpen the jpeg instead of the PSD. I mean sharpen the PSD as the last thing you do before saving as jpeg, typically at maybe 60-70% (that's the kind of level I use in PSP with unsharp mask anyway). Thjen save as the jpeg. But then before uploading, open the jpeg and apply another sharpen at around a third to half of the previous level. then re-save then upload.

"I don't know why it works but it does, as long as there's enough sharpness in the original that the softness isn't due to lack of focus.

"Anyway, try it out on your last shot. take the jpeg, sharpen at low level and resave, then upload as a mod on the same shot, or better still maybe a version. then you can flick between the two and see if it works

"Hope that helps, if you want me to walk you through the other alternative to dodge and burn - in a nutshell, apply a layer of 50% grey (128,128,128) as the top layer and use the overlay blend mode. This layer will not be visible when grey. Now if you set a paintbrush to foreground white and background grey (or vice versa), if you paint black on the layer it darlens where you paint - if yopu paint white it lightens where you paint. If you overdo a bit, you can paint back with the opposite shade. You can also use various shades of grey which is why it's more subtle than doidge and burn.

"Final point - it works for midtones best - if you try and lighten heavy shdow areas, or darken bright highlight areas, it just looks muddy."

Very helpful - thanks, Stephen!

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javam
javam e2 Member 91083 forum postsjavam vcard United Kingdom19 Constructive Critique Points
12 Nov 2008 - 9:36 PM

I think the new version shows that there is nothing wrong with your ability to get the shot, and improving at photoshop is the easier part of the formula I suspect as it is not weather dependent!

Neil

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conrad
conrad  910873 forum posts116 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2008 - 8:33 AM

Interesting conclusion, Neil. I do still get a bit lost in PhotoShop. Jacqueline has been working with it since version 3! Thanks.

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jinstone
jinstone e2 Member 8jinstone vcard England1 Constructive Critique Points
19 Nov 2008 - 5:49 PM

Preferred posting one.....lovely shot
Smile
Jeremy

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motorsportpictures

Stunning shot.
Nice light and exposure./
Scott

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conrad
conrad  910873 forum posts116 Constructive Critique Points
17 Feb 2009 - 2:25 PM

Thanks, both!

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