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Herringfleet Mill

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Hi all

Thought it was time to put an image in critique.
Question, what can I do to better this image, I used a Lee nd soft grad filter and polariser over the top of that for the reflection.
I thought using a lower exposure to catch detail in the sky and lighten in Lightroom 4, then selective sharpening in cs5 using layers.

All comments welcome and mods welcome.

Brand:Canon
Camera:Canon EOS 5D MkIII
Lens:EF24-105mm F/4L IS USM
Recording media:RAW (digital)
Date Taken:30 Oct 2012 - 5:23 PM
Focal Length:32mm
Lens Max Aperture:f/4.0
Aperture:f/22.0
Shutter Speed:0.8sec
Exposure Comp:0.0
ISO:100
Exposure Mode:Manual
Metering Mode:Multi-segment
Flash:Off, Did not fire
White Balance:As Shot
Title:Herringfleet Mill
Username:ianrobinson ianrobinson
Uploaded:31 Oct 2012 - 8:32 AM
Tags:Landscape / travel
Votes:Voting Disabled
Critque wantedCritique Wanted
Has Modifications Modifications Welcome (Upload a Modification)
Awards have been disabled on this photo

Comments

This photo is here for critique. Please only comment constructively and with suggestions on how to improve it.
tezquirk
tezquirk  227 forum posts United Kingdom
31 Oct 2012 - 8:45 AM

Lovely shot .. Its a Shame you didn't get a bit more of the Windmill reflection in the water , But Nice capture .. Regard's Tez.. Smile

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luckybry
luckybry e2 Member 4luckybry vcard Scotland
31 Oct 2012 - 8:58 AM

the colours and pov are excellent here dont think there is much you could do to improve this image i agree about the windmill reflection but you have to take whats there at the time nice work

bryan

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PinkK
PinkK  580 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
31 Oct 2012 - 9:04 AM

Improve it?? I wouldn't even know where to start to get an image as gorgeous as this to begin with! Looks fine to me GrinGrin

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bps11
bps11  2 England
31 Oct 2012 - 9:50 AM

A beautiful tranquil shot....well done!

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Focus_Man
Focus_Man  4481 forum posts United Kingdom631 Constructive Critique Points
31 Oct 2012 - 9:51 AMConstructive Critique!This comment was flagged as constructive critique! 

I think you have this windmill taken from the opposite side in your portfolio so it is obviously one of your favourites. It is a moot point but I would have preferred the windmill to be facing inwards (on both pics incidentally) but the main thing to me is the composition. I think you have been more concerned here with the reflection and the processing to notice, but I feel that with more sky added at the top and the lower section cropped just below the reflection of a windmill blade, you would have a better balance.

I would also have liked to have seen a little more detail in the grassy section and accordingly have hastily done a mod. where I have added some sky and cropped to give you an idea of my suggestion. I have used a 10" x 8" landscape format for no reason in particular. There is no need to deface your picture by adding text, I always prefer to see the frame full of your intended work to stand alone.

Frank

Last Modified By Focus_Man at 31 Oct 2012 - 9:53 AM

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Bonvilston
31 Oct 2012 - 10:48 AM

I think this is a difficult image to capture. It has a number of interesting elements - the sun, the mill, the reflection. At some point I bet you had to choose whether to eliminate one or more of these for the sake of the composition, or whether to ignore composition for the sake of getting all of them in somewhere. Unfortunately I think the great photographs are those that do not compromise and have these elements in a perfect composition, even if it means walking a mile or two to get it. Frank's Mod is certainly an interesting creation to create more of this compromise.....Peter

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iancrowson
iancrowson e2 Member 4211 forum postsiancrowson vcard United Kingdom129 Constructive Critique Points
31 Oct 2012 - 3:32 PM

I agree with the above, this is a good photograph just as it is. This for me is a very attractive image suggesting tranquility and peace after sunset. For me you have achieved one of the more difficult aspects of photography, atmosphere, the feelings the photographer felt at the time of making the image. If this was achieved post capture in PS well done too.
This looks as if it was shot after sunset in early twilight. Darkness is falling. I personally would suggest avoid lightening shadows. You could well end up with an unnatural looking picture.
For me adding you name shows just pride in your work and does not worry me in the slightest.
regards
Ian

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banehawi
banehawi Critique Team 10868 forum postsbanehawi vcard Canada2867 Constructive Critique Points
31 Oct 2012 - 4:58 PMConstructive Critique!This comment was flagged as constructive critique! 

Very nice shot, lovely mood. I would like a little more sky, just to lower the mill. And how about flipping it horizontally?


Theres no shame that the reflection is incomplete, - it fully complete. All of the reflection is captured just as it was.

Im not expert at using filters, or the order of stacked filters, but I would hazard a guess that the polariser might be better closest to the lens, as long as you can rotate it. Maybe someone else who has experience can weight in. It may in fact make no difference.

I found when I worked on it that any lifting of shadow detail reveals a lot of noise, so its good where it is. This would suggest that the darker areas could be a little underexposed.

Consider using f/16 rather than 22, - you may find the result shaper, as many lenses fall off sharply below f/16.


The attached link shows a sharpness review for the lens, - it goes only to f/11, but you can expect the fall off to continue at that rate: http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/420-canon_24105_4_5d



Hope the mod works for you,



regards


Willie

Last Modified By banehawi at 31 Oct 2012 - 5:06 PM

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ianrobinson
ianrobinson e2 Member 41107 forum postsianrobinson vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
31 Oct 2012 - 9:11 PM

Hi all thanks for the Mods and advise guys it is all very much appreciated and taken on board.
Willie thx for your mod and advise on the lens aperture I have heard that somewhere before and must do this as it sounds good advise.
the poloriser must go on after the filters for it to work effectively apparently.

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derekhansen
derekhansen e2 Member 5185 forum postsderekhansen vcard United Kingdom23 Constructive Critique Points
31 Oct 2012 - 9:45 PMConstructive Critique!This comment was flagged as constructive critique! 

Hi Ian,

This is a very nice image which many photographers would be happy with, but knowing the quality of your work I understand why you are not 100% satisfied. As others have suggested what prevents a very good image being outstanding here is the balance between the land and sky. More sky would be the answer as per focusman and banehawi's mods but I suspect looking at your image that there was little interest in the sky higher up, further confirmed by the lack of cloud reflection in the water. So you made the right decision IMO and you cropped it out.
In conclusion I dont think you could improve this much. Sure you could re-process and play around with the crop etc but sometimes nature dictates that not all the elements before us come together quite as we would like. Look at it another way. Had the cloud reflecting the sun gone up higher you would no doubt have included them and as a bonus you would have had their reflection in the water. Not your fault. Blame nature!

Derek

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ianrobinson
ianrobinson e2 Member 41107 forum postsianrobinson vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
31 Oct 2012 - 10:08 PM

Thanks Derek, and you hit the nail on the head as to why I did not include more sky, there was none to include and I felt it would be a dead part of the image to include more of nothing, so I concentrated on what was there already and went for a central mill between the bottom of the image and top.
It was not easy to take this image as the light was fading and strong in other parts of the sky, my view at time of taking the image was to go a little under exposed as to not blow out the sky where there was some nice colour and interest, knowing i could pull back what i wanted in the processing stages, perhaps i pulled out the exposure a little too much I don't know, I was trying to be careful of not making the grass too light as said by focus man it may make it look unrealistic.
Thanks all for your comments guys it is always good to see others points of view on images.

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Sooty_1
Sooty_1 Critique Team 41207 forum posts United Kingdom198 Constructive Critique Points
31 Oct 2012 - 10:22 PM

Pretty much all been said, but I'm not sure the polariser did much here?

Typical Norfolk sky and one of the better mills to shoot, with the water in the right places. I would also have liked the mill "facing into" the shot, and in an ideal world the reflection would have been in clear water rather than the weedy bit, but without cutting and digging, I doubt you could do much.
As far as more sky, a little more fading to a darker colour would also have been ok.

Nick

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paulbroad
paulbroad  781 forum posts United Kingdom853 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2012 - 8:12 AM

There will be no polarised light here. Sun too low and wrong angle. However, a fine image and I would simply leave it alone. The only thing I note, which you can do little about with a total change of viewpoint is that the mill is looking out of the frame. Daft I know, but it just caught my eye.

Paul

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ianrobinson
ianrobinson e2 Member 41107 forum postsianrobinson vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
3 Nov 2012 - 8:32 AM

Thx Paul and yes daft of me to put the polariser on at this late period but as i had it on earlier I forgot to take it off, excuses i know but there you go Smile.

There are good aspects to this mill and although i agree with people about the sails being on the opposite side of the mill, there comes a point where you see that side done to death by others and there is no dyke to get a reflection in hence why my choice was this side, just a shame they are not facing me.
I have this issue quite a lot with mills in Norfolk, there is one in How hill and there is only one place you can get a shot on the ground and that is with, you guessed it, the sails on the opposite side, annoying as it is a beautiful mill but there you go what can you do Wink.

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