I like Driving in my Car

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Something a little different from me this time ... a temporary halt in the many Malham shots I will be posting over the next few days.

This technique is covered in this months Practical Photography [PP] and I though I'd give it a go. I particularly like the reflections in the mirrors which just add another level of depth to the shot, I hope you do too.

This was taken around my home town last night and is a 30 second exposure @ f16. I will be trying this technique again soon and experimenting a little more with camera angles, but I had fun all the same ... let me know what you think.

All comments +/- welcomed, thanks for your time.

Paul

Title:I like Driving in my Car
Username:sut68 sut68
Uploaded:18 Jan 2007 - 8:50 AM
Camera:Canon EOS 350D
Lens:sigma 10-20mm
Recording media:Digital RAW ISO 100
Tags:Driving, General, In car, Lights, Long exposure, Nightime, Not hdr, Specialist / abstract, Sports / action, Street lights
Votes:151
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Comments

pmorgan
pmorgan (e2 Member)
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184 forum postspmorgan vcard England12 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 8:52 AM
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Excellent capture Paul, love the movement and vivd colours.

Rgds
Paul

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18 Jan 2007 - 8:57 AM

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sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 8:57 AM
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Cheers Paul thanks for your time.

I'm not expecting anything of this shot, I don't think it has the EPZ'bility and so it won't fare too well, but I am prepared to be suprised ...

Paul

who was driving then paul, did you drag Fran out with you so you could get this one?

I've not read the technique in the magazine but I do like this as it's unusual.

rich

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 9:08 AM
0

Me driving with tripod sprawled around fron seat and with a shutter release cable to hand. Fran was safely at home indulging herself with a nice Cabernet Sauvignon.

Going down like a lead balloon though this one, lots of views, little feedback [as always] ;-P

Paul

PAllitt
18 Jan 2007 - 9:10 AM
0

I saw this technique and fancied a go, haven't got round to it yet.
To be honest I think I prefer the symmetry seen in their shots from the centre of the rear seat but saying that I still like this. Now, where did I put the car keys?

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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1894 forum postssut68 vcard England68 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 9:13 AM
0

Cheers Peter for commenting. As for the positioning of the camera, I will be trying this again to get some different angles, more akin to the others they show in the mag, but I quite likes this one as it showed a little more dashboard.

Paul

I haven't seen this months PP but have seen this style of shot before. Your effort really works well I think. I like the overhead light trails (I take it you were in a tunnel?).

I remember seeing a shot taken from the back seat where you can see the reflection of the driver in the rear view mirrow which also worked well.

Mike

AlleyCatz
AlleyCatz (e2 Member)
6
274 forum postsAlleyCatz vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 9:17 AM
0

I was instantly drawn to the thumbnail.I really like the effect from the technique used,the colours,lines and the glow.It has impact,excellent.

~Alley~

'A little different' indeed. A first-class and eye-catching piece of work.

Dave

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
8
1894 forum postssut68 vcard England68 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 9:25 AM
0

Mike, wasn't in a tunnel, just an ordinary main street, best sticking to ones with the old orange sodium lights for that red glow.

Cheers Alley glad you like it and thanks too Dave.

Thanks guys for your comments, they are very welcome.

Paul

rhiw_com
18 Jan 2007 - 9:28 AM
0

Much better than the one in the mag Paul. Quality photography. Fantastic technique.

Rg Tony

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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1894 forum postssut68 vcard England68 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 9:29 AM
0

Praise indeed Tony, thanks a bunch, not sure I agree but thanks anyway!!!

Paul

bmx_bandit
18 Jan 2007 - 9:32 AM
0

Syunning shot. How did you keep the camera steady, a tripod?

Simon

wamp
wamp (e2 Member)
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276 forum postswamp vcard England8 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 9:32 AM
0

Works very well, the reflection in both mirrors is a nice touch

Sean

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 9:33 AM
0

Yes, good quality tripod, and some careful driving ;-D

Jackthelad
18 Jan 2007 - 9:42 AM
0

And better roads than where I live.

Buffalo_Tom
Buffalo_Tom (e2 Member)
5
2305 forum postsBuffalo_Tom vcard Wales8 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 9:46 AM
0

Great idea/well thought out.Good luck with the further experiments.
Tom.

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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1894 forum postssut68 vcard England68 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 9:55 AM
0

Cheers JTL and Tom, I am quite looking forward to getting out and doing some more soon.

Paul

Tandberg
18 Jan 2007 - 10:09 AM
0

Works well Paul!!!
You got to try em aint you mate, some of them work and some dont But this is a cracker..
Dave

DaveU
DaveU (e2 Member)
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1315 forum postsDaveU vcard England107 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 10:14 AM
0

Eyecatching and different Paul. I like it a lot, and would personally like to see more of this type of image and less of Malham, Padley and Nether Throckmorton. I'm feeling a little jaded with landscapes at the moment Sad

Dave.

owp
7
168 forum posts
18 Jan 2007 - 10:17 AM
0

. . . saw this in Practical Photography recently . . very effective and eyecatching . . .



Mike.W

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 10:17 AM
0

Cheers Dave [Tandberg], enjoyed doing it so much I'm gonna try again soon.

Dave [DaveU], sorry, going back to Malham shots soon, I just wanted a break myself so I can review them again and try to be more selective of what I put up next.

Ta Mike, glad you like it.

Cheers all for your comments [& clicks],
Paul

Big_T
6
58 forum posts United Kingdom
18 Jan 2007 - 10:18 AM
0

I saw the article too and it works brilliantly well done.

kaybee
8
3233 forum posts Scotland19 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 10:22 AM
0

Keep meaning to try this.


Roy

davidburleson
davidburleson (ePHOTOzine Staff)
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1854 forum postsdavidburleson vcard United Kingdom
18 Jan 2007 - 10:38 AM
0

Great shot, Love these types of photos.

Tandberg
18 Jan 2007 - 10:39 AM
0

He is only jelous Paul as he dont know what a landscape is LOL!!!

DaveU
DaveU (e2 Member)
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1315 forum postsDaveU vcard England107 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 10:53 AM
0

I do so. It's where you have to take your camera outside. Isn't it??

Pete
Pete (ePHOTOzine Staff)
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16713 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England86 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 10:53 AM
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One of the better ones I've seen using this technique.

DaveU
DaveU (e2 Member)
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1315 forum postsDaveU vcard England107 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 10:55 AM
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.... see Paul, you stop taking landscapes and you get an EC Smile

Congrats.

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 10:59 AM
0

Cheers Terry, Roy and David. ROFLMAO at the Daves - easy guys ;-D

WOW ... thanks Pete, made all the effort worth while ... happy bunny now!!!

I got 1 or 2 EC's for my landscapes as well Dave ;-P

Paul

petra16
18 Jan 2007 - 11:02 AM
0

Looks like EPZ is going to be flooded with images like this, look what you have started...lol

great, will have to try this myself looks like fun and the outcome is amazing..
congrat on the EC well deserved..

petra

Tandberg
18 Jan 2007 - 11:04 AM
0

Just popped back to Say CONGRATS on the EC Mate!!!!

Well done
Dave

oppo
6
Scotland2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 11:11 AM
0

Just brilliant and congratulations on the E.C.

Phil

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 11:11 AM
0

Wasn't me Petra, someone did this a few days back but can't remember who, and anyway, PP are to blame ... honest ;-D

Cheers Dave + Phil, chuffed is a word that would describe me at present !!!

Paul

MikeBonsall
18 Jan 2007 - 11:17 AM
0

Congrats on the EC Paul!!

Mike

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 11:26 AM
0

Ta Mike, thanks for coming back!!

debster
18 Jan 2007 - 11:37 AM
0

Hi Paul,

At first glance I thought it actually WAS the photo from this month's PP!! A stunning replic and well deserving of the EC. Well done!

Debbie

dven
dven (e2 Member)
6
dven vcard United Kingdom
18 Jan 2007 - 11:56 AM
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A stunning shot well worth the EC

dven

carriebugg
18 Jan 2007 - 12:00 PM
0

Well done on the EC - and you said
Quote: I'm not expecting anything of this shot, I don't think it has the EPZ'bility!

Well taken and good driving skills!

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 12:06 PM
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Cheers Debbie, not quite as good as theirs IMHO,

Thanks too Dven, and Carrie ... I know and that's why I am chuffed, I didn't think it would do well at all ... how wrong am I??

Paul

yuno
8
271 forum posts Croatia
18 Jan 2007 - 12:47 PM
0

A 30 sec exposure?! In a moving car!? How the hell did it end up so sharp and still??? Woah. Just WOAH.

conrad
conrad (e2 Member)
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10570 forum postsconrad vcard Netherlands112 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 12:54 PM
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Quote: I'm not expecting anything of this shot, I don't think it has the EPZ'bility and so it won't fare too well

So much for your foresight, LOL!

I have to join yuno in her amazement about the sharpness of such a long exposure in a moving car. Whatever it is that you did, it worked very well!

And congrats on the EC!

Conrad

tomcat
tomcat (e2 Member)
6
4870 forum poststomcat vcard United Kingdom5 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 1:05 PM
0

Out of this world
Not my type of photography but I know a good 'un when I see it

Adrian

MarkT
MarkT (e2 Member)
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119 forum postsMarkT vcard England2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 1:19 PM
0

Cool shot Paul, and congrats on the EC.

mARK.

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 1:19 PM
0

Cheers Valentina and Conrad, I was pretty happy with this when I saw it on the back of the camera, and even more impressed on screen ... that said, it's not as sharp as I think I can get it and that's why I want to try it all again.

Cheers too Adrian and Mark, not normally my thing ... but a change is as good as a rest ;-D

Paul

Jou©o
Jou©o (e2 Member)
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56 forum postsJou©o vcard Finland
18 Jan 2007 - 1:43 PM
0

Now this IS good!!!

Jouko

Nice one buddy, congrats on the EC.

Just had a thought - you need a road thats pretty damn straight for this one don't you for a 30 second exposure

rich

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 1:49 PM
0

Cheers Jouko, appreciated dude.

Rich - cheers mate and fairly straight yes, I actually found that if the road had a gradual bend to the right, then you also got the trails curving round which provided another slant on this.

Have posted a mod to help overseas visitors with this shot ;-D

Paul

DaveU
DaveU (e2 Member)
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1315 forum postsDaveU vcard England107 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 2:04 PM
0

Just been thinking about this sharpness issue on a 30s exposure in a moving car. My guess is that as long as the tripod is secured well, then if the car moves so will the tripod and camera accordingly, so in theory the shot should stay sharp.

If you think about one of your long exposure landscape shots, your tripod is fixed to the ground which is actually part of a planet hurtling round the sun at 186,000 mile an hour.

Makes you think how we ever get sharp shots eh?

Sorry to digress Smile

RoddBC
6
40 forum posts United States
18 Jan 2007 - 2:08 PM
0

Great idea and technique Paul but where's your tomtom?


Rodd

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 2:16 PM
0

Blimey Dave, that was some brain food you had for lunch mate ;-D

Rodd, didn't need the TomTom to go around the block fella, this one wasn't too far from the house. Cheers for the Autographs too, they came through yesterday, yer a star!!!

Paul

jaktis
jaktis (e2 Member)
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79 forum postsjaktis vcard Sweden
18 Jan 2007 - 2:57 PM
0

What to say, excellent performed

Peter

stevenj
18 Jan 2007 - 3:05 PM
0

Just about to say this is gona get an EC and stop worrying about feedback, but then I bothered to look properly :o)

Nice one, it does the job. I'll have to go and have a read of PP now!

stevenj
18 Jan 2007 - 3:08 PM
0

Oh and Paul, there's just one thing missing... the SPORT button isn't on!! :o)

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 3:19 PM
0

Cheers Peter.

ROFLMAO @ Steve ... but warp factor 3 was initiated anyway [well spotted though] ;-D

whipspeed
whipspeed (e2 Member)
7
3691 forum postswhipspeed vcard United Kingdom22 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 3:46 PM
0

Nice one Paul & better than the shots in PP. Congrats on the EC.

Sarah

It sure looks EPA'able to me. I think we're talking at least warp 7. And I don't think 'she could take it any longer' if you pushed it any further. The crystals would fuse and you'd lose containment! And ejecting a warp core in traffic is not recommended!

Patrick

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 4:31 PM
0

Cheers Sarah, thanks for your lovely comment.

LMAO @ Patrick, you've obviously experienced that problem yourself then ??? ;-D

Thanks everyone for your valuable time,
Paul

rontear
rontear (e2 Member)
9
rontear vcard England2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 4:39 PM
0

Make good creative/expermental images. Try them at different times and speeds. Colourful and has impact, well done for E/C Paul. Ron.

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 4:41 PM
0

Cheers for your thoughts Ron, already planned my next lot of ideas, just need the time.

Paul

paulstefan
18 Jan 2007 - 5:05 PM
0

Nice one and congrats on the EC.
I saw this in PP too, but thought the cops would nick me if they caught me trying it!
Cheers, Paul

Great shot and you have beaten me to it, this was my plan over the weekend. Ill still give it a blast but it will be hard to beat this. Cracking image.

Scott

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 5:09 PM
0

Actually sat next to some 'Rozzers' at traffic lights in the town centre, but as my windows are slightly tinted I don't think they could see what I was up to. Cheers for your time Paul, much appreciated mate.

Scott, I was going to wait but thought that someone might beat me to it ... sorry!!

Paul

No probs Paul, it looks like a great laught, unfortunately I dont have any fancy dials or nice chrome badge on my car so im behind already. Ill see what I come up with.

Scott

sooty 36
18 Jan 2007 - 5:57 PM
0

Nicely done. They covered this in last months Digital Photo also and you`ve done a cracking job. Well deserved EC.
Chris

ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade (Critique Team)
8
12726 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England212 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 5:59 PM
0

I thought this would do well when I breifly saw it at work this morning.

nice to get an EC - very different to the ususal EPZ fodder.

How did you fix the camera in place? Or should I just go buy the mag Smile

martin.w
martin.w (e2 Member)
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298 forum postsmartin.w vcard United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 6:22 PM
0

60 up! Saw the article too and thought about having a go, but this is brilliant Paul. Well done.

KingArthur
18 Jan 2007 - 6:30 PM
0

Nice work Paul, good one.

Joe

Maddie
7
2701 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 6:34 PM
0

well done on your EC Paul

msnapz
5
74 forum posts
18 Jan 2007 - 6:53 PM
0

Wonderful shot Paul. Seen it done many times but this is the best ive seen

Rob_p
7
80 forum posts
18 Jan 2007 - 7:15 PM
0

wow I was reading PP at lunch in WHsmiths and saw this technique!!
Soon as I saw it I thought it was actually one of the shots from it!

Very well done matey

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 7:41 PM
0

Cheers all you guys, I must admit I am suprised by how well this has actually done.

Ade: decent tripod only, just had it straddling the front passenger seat - but make sure it wasn't resting on it, as the seat will bounce a little.

Thanks all for your wonderful comments, much appreciated.

Paul

Nigel_95
Nigel_95 (e2 Member)
6
248 forum postsNigel_95 vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
18 Jan 2007 - 9:03 PM
0

Excellent shot Paul. Congratulations on the EC.

Nigel

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 9:04 PM
0

Thanks very much Nigel.

beaniebabe
18 Jan 2007 - 10:01 PM
0


Quote: I got 1 or 2 EC's for my landscapes as well Dave ;-p

show off ;o)

great shot mate...we were talking about this on on SGB

Angie x

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 10:21 PM
0

Who's we Angie and I hope it was all good ???

Cheers for stopping by, good to 'speak' to you again,

Paul

Congrats Paul, so much for the lead balloon eh nice when your proved wrong in such a positive way well done indeed.

Ian.

PS
I'll keep out of Southport from now on if you and Angie,are driving around doing this.

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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18 Jan 2007 - 10:55 PM
0

Cheers Ian, yes, nice to be proved wrong but for all the right reasons ... I think!!!

Behave yourself, come to Southport and give us a shout when you do, wuld be nice to see you again sometime.

Take care mate and all the best.

Paul

billma
8
119 forum posts United States
19 Jan 2007 - 1:11 AM
0

Really beautiful...perhaps you underestimated the EPZ'bility of it.

bill

rhiw_com
19 Jan 2007 - 7:29 AM
0

Congrats on the EC Paul, told you it was better than the one in the Mag Smile

All the very best, Tony

chase
chase (e2 Member)
6
976 forum postschase vcard England110 Constructive Critique Points
19 Jan 2007 - 7:35 AM
0

Clever set up Paul,I particularly like the reflections in the rear view mirror,a nice touch.
Not something I would try,not that adventurous with the driving !
Well done on your award.
Janet

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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19 Jan 2007 - 8:45 AM
0

Cheers Bill - yes, just goes to show how wrong you can be ;-D

Ta for coming back Tony, looks like you might be right.

Janet, you don't have to be adventurous at all, this was all shot at normal driving speeds and conditions on a normal 'A' road, not high-speed in anyway, in fact 25 - 30mph [honest officer]. I definitely wanted the reflections and so majored on keeping both mirrors visible, but on a few of them the lights were great outside but rubbish reflections, this had a nice bit of both IMHO.

Paul

rossi
8
137 forum posts England11 Constructive Critique Points
19 Jan 2007 - 9:55 AM
0

Like the HDR, I'll be having a go at this aswell, hopefully I might get close to the standard you put down here.

Excellent stuff.

Ian.

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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19 Jan 2007 - 10:00 AM
0

Cheers little fella ;-D

pfheyes
19 Jan 2007 - 12:38 PM
0

I have always wanted to capture something like this - beautifully executed, Paul, and an excellent EC that I agree with. Smile

Pete

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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19 Jan 2007 - 1:12 PM
0

Cheers Pete, glad you agree with Pete ;-D

Paul

beaniebabe
19 Jan 2007 - 3:24 PM
0

talking about the technique not you ;-p

Ian I have not been out for ages :o(

keep well mate and say hi to fran

Angie x

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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19 Jan 2007 - 3:29 PM
0

Will do missus ;-D

daviewat
daviewat (e2 Member)
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4039 forum postsdaviewat vcard Scotland
19 Jan 2007 - 8:13 PM
0

Would love to try that, BUT there appears to be a lack of light around my wee hoooose Smile)))))))


Great stuff and good on you for the EC


Dave

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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19 Jan 2007 - 10:14 PM
0

Cheers Dave, thought that might be the case, you'd have to drive at least 8 miles to get anything approaching streetlights ;-D

Paul

colin
7
697 forum posts Scotland5 Constructive Critique Points
20 Jan 2007 - 11:16 AM
0

Paul, Excellent stuff!! I for one, will be giving this a go. At least if its still raining it won't matter.
Indoor/outdoor photography - I'm Lovin It!!
Colin

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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20 Jan 2007 - 12:05 PM
0

Love the phrase indoor/outdoor photography Colin ... never though of it like that, cheers for stopping by ;-D

Paul

MrsS
MrsS (Junior Gallery Team)
5
4523 forum postsMrsS vcard England18 Constructive Critique Points
20 Jan 2007 - 12:05 PM
0

Just had to be the 100th!!!
Hope it gets lots more tho' - - AND I've broken the curse - not compounded it!!!!

xxxx

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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20 Jan 2007 - 12:06 PM
0

... me too, me too ;-D xxx

mshepherd
20 Jan 2007 - 12:36 PM
0

much better than the on in PP!!!

Great work

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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20 Jan 2007 - 12:52 PM
0

Thanks very much Matt!!

Leightonhs
20 Jan 2007 - 2:13 PM
0

Fantastic, very creative and original.

-Leighton.

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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20 Jan 2007 - 3:26 PM
0

Cheers Leighton, appreciate your comments.

Paul

rosie42
21 Jan 2007 - 10:08 PM
0

Congratulations on the well-deserved EC!

Susie :o)

MediumSizeUnavailable
6
1464 forum postsMediumSizeUnavailable vcard Belgium44 Constructive Critique Points
22 Jan 2007 - 5:03 AM
0

Terrific photo. Very eclectic. congrats

Pagnobito
22 Jan 2007 - 5:07 AM
0

I like doing these too, but with my camera on a suction mount.
click

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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22 Jan 2007 - 8:20 AM
0

Thanks Susie for stopping by, cheers too Koen much appreciated guys. Like yours too Mike, especially the Blackwall tunnel one, thanks for you comment.

Cheers all,
Paul

Chriscj
24 Jan 2007 - 2:54 PM
0

Well worth the effort Paul, well done on your EC.

Chris

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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24 Jan 2007 - 3:07 PM
0

Cheers Chris, thanks for your time.

ading
8
United Kingdom
25 Jan 2007 - 12:44 PM
0

Great technic and the result is very well done! Congrats on EC! Cheers...Abdul

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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25 Jan 2007 - 1:18 PM
0

Cheers Abdul, the EC was just the icing on the cake for me.

Paul

BenF
6
United States
29 Jan 2007 - 5:52 AM
0

Paul, you've inspired me to have a go at this car, night photography. This is a great shot, nice and crisp even with the long shutter. I haven't read this month's practical photography, but I surmise that the technique involves a sturdy tripod and lots of weight hanging from it.

So, an hour of photographs and 4 hours of photoshop later I think I have a finished product. I'll be uploading it tomorrow morning (US time) I'd love to have the pro's opinion Wink.

Thanks for the cool idea.

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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2 Feb 2007 - 8:51 AM
0

Cheers Ben, had a look at your 'inspired' shots, they look great!!

Paul

iajacks
22 Feb 2007 - 12:33 PM
0

nice, did some like this not too long ago, they create very interesting image as this one as, spot on ian.

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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1894 forum postssut68 vcard England68 Constructive Critique Points
22 Feb 2007 - 1:01 PM
0

Cheers Ian, most content with this one myself ;-D

Wow amazing. well done
Carolyn x

Nick_w
Nick_w (e2 Member)
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2740 forum postsNick_w vcard England62 Constructive Critique Points
13 Jun 2007 - 10:49 AM
0

Hi Paul, I 'm new to EPZ and stumbled accross this, very well executed, but I'm with Paul Stefan above, I think I've had enough pictures taken of me in the car for my liking

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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1894 forum postssut68 vcard England68 Constructive Critique Points
13 Jun 2007 - 1:25 PM
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Cheers Carolyn and PMSL at Warney ... better not try this then Wink

BERTRAM
6 May 2008 - 2:00 PM
0

very good nice effect

sut68
sut68 (e2 Member)
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1894 forum postssut68 vcard England68 Constructive Critique Points
19 Jul 2008 - 1:35 PM
0

Thanks!!!

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