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Judgement

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A final upload from our Town Show, earlier this autumn. The judge in action. Reputations hang in the balance...
The event takes place in a hall with a black velvet stage curtain. I couldn't ask for better.
Thanks for looking,
Moira

Brand:NIKON CORPORATION
Camera:Nikon D90 Check out Nikon Nation!
Lens:16.0-85.0 mm f/3.5-5.6
Recording media:RAW (digital)
Date Taken:8 Sep 2012 - 1:53 PM
Focal Length:38mm
Lens Max Aperture:f/4.8
Aperture:f/4.8
Shutter Speed:1/80sec
Exposure Comp:-1/3
ISO:200
Exposure Mode:Shutter speed priority AE
Metering Mode:Multi-segment
Flash:On, Return detected
White Balance:As Shot
Title:Judgement
Username:mrswoolybill mrswoolybill
Uploaded:16 Nov 2012 - 8:12 AM
Tags:Community photography, Flowers, People, Photo journalism
Votes:48
Variant - ReportVariant - Report

Comments

nonur
nonur e2 Member 5nonur vcard Turkey8 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 8:20 AM

Beautiful and pleasing recordings, Moira.

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saeidNL
saeidNL  4 Netherlands3 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 8:31 AM

This is a beautiful image captured so well and presented
saeid

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barbarahirst
barbarahirst e2 Member 6barbarahirst vcard United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 8:35 AM

Double wow with these

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fentiger
fentiger e2 Member 13915 forum postsfentiger vcard England22 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 8:47 AM

A most pleasing well composed candid against the black velvet backdrop.

Albert

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MacroMeister
16 Nov 2012 - 9:14 AM

Shot #2. So much of it seems out of focus. I can't find an initial viewing point.

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JohnChambersPhotography

Great colours Moira, and as you say the black backgound works a treat. very nice.

John

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7435 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1022 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 9:36 AM


Quote: Shot #2. So much of it seems out of focus. I can't find an initial viewing point.

How about the outline of the white dahlia petals?
V2 Exif - 1/60th second, f3.5, my 50mm f1.8 lens. Chosen very carefully. The site doesn't show Exif for subsidiary images unfortunately.
Moira

Last Modified By mrswoolybill at 16 Nov 2012 - 9:39 AM

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MacroMeister
16 Nov 2012 - 9:39 AM


Quote: Shot #2. So much of it seems out of focus. I can't find an initial viewing point.How about the outline of the white dahlia petals?
Moira

Yes, they are in focus - I did say "So much of it seems out of focus" not all of it. I can't see how the rim of focus on the dahlia integrates or juxtaposes effectively with the rest, which is out of focus. I'd appreciate you saying how you think it works.

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7435 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1022 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 9:46 AM


Quote: I'd appreciate you saying how you think it works

By homing in on particular detail in a 'bigger picture'. It's something that I value and seek out.
Some people appreciate this approach, some don't. But one of the first lessons that I learned from my tutor at University back in the 1960s was 'The first and most important stage of criticism is to understand what someone was trying to do. The second stage is to understand how they set about it. You cannot proceed until you have established both of these.'
Sorry but if someone is going to preach the Ansel Adams f64 school they're in the wrong portfolio here...
Moira

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Tibetan
Tibetan  2 England
16 Nov 2012 - 9:47 AM

V1. for me Moira, nice colours and like the detail, regards Leon.GrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrin have a good dayWink

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SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 64431 forum postsSlowSong vcard England29 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 9:55 AM

A serious business.
x

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WhiteRose1
WhiteRose1 e2 Member 41053 forum postsWhiteRose1 vcard England136 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 10:13 AM

if someone is going to preach the Ansel Adams f64 school they're in the wrong portfolio here Smile the D90 doesn't have an F64 does it? TongueGrin

He's not counting those petals is he?

Dave

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Richsr
Richsr e2 Member 790 forum postsRichsr vcard England209 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 10:53 AM

You were allowed in during the judge ! a very rare honour, like your use of the selective focus point in V2
Regards Richard

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CarolG
CarolG e2 Member 7128 forum postsCarolG vcard Greece17 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 10:56 AM

Those chrysanths are real beauties, Moira, did they win 1st prize? Like the selective focusing in V.2 very much. Carol

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danbrann
danbrann e2 Member 10473 forum postsdanbrann vcard 15 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 11:52 AM

Judge not.........lest thou be judged.

Those Daisies are lovely and its not a bad shot either.

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AnnChown
AnnChown e2 Member 4183 forum postsAnnChown vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 12:08 PM

Good reportage - and I love the selective focussing in v2.
Ann

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7435 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1022 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 12:41 PM


Quote: You were allowed in during the judge ! a very rare honour,

I photograph the event for the Gardeners' Association, I have pretty well free run. I always check in advance with the Judges, but have never had any objection. This one says that once he's 'in the zone' it would take more than a photographer to disturb his concentration.

Quote: the D90 doesn't have an F64 does it? Tongue

Just one of its many virtues...

Quote: Judge not.........lest thou be judged.

Vengeance is mine - I will repay, saith the Lord.
Moira

Last Modified By mrswoolybill at 16 Nov 2012 - 12:45 PM

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NDODS
NDODS e2 Member 43242 forum postsNDODS vcard United Kingdom103 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 12:42 PM

Wonderful reportage GrinGrinGrin

Regards Nathan

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AnneWorner
AnneWorner e2 Member 6612 forum postsAnneWorner vcard United States42 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 1:18 PM

Ergh - sometimes one shouldn't read all the comments Wink

I was going to ask how you created that black backdrop, but read that it was already there for you - can't complain about such co-operation.

I wonder how people manage to grow such lovely immaculate blooms - I guess it takes a lot of fertilizer and insecticide? Guess I'll stick to photography.

BTW - I really like that selective focus in v2, and of the two images it is my favorite.

Anne

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7435 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1022 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 1:22 PM

Anne, I often tuck my favourite away behind the 'main upload', for people to discover... Wink

Quote: I wonder how people manage to grow such lovely immaculate blooms - I guess it takes a lot of fertilizer and insecticide? Guess I'll stick to photography.

It's a case of obsession here abouts... And one obsession is quite enough!
Moira

Last Modified By mrswoolybill at 16 Nov 2012 - 1:23 PM

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Daisymaye
Daisymaye e2 Member 5Daisymaye vcard Canada9 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 2:15 PM

Prefer V2 with it's pointy white fingers pointing to the Pink flowers. .......Sandy

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Herge88
Herge88 e2 Member 740 forum postsHerge88 vcard England4 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 2:19 PM

Looks like he has some fabulous blooms to be proud of here Moira.

Best Matt

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Hop-A-Long
16 Nov 2012 - 3:03 PM

Excellent documentary shot in V1 Moira. V2 is a good piece of close up work too.

Andy

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TrevBatWCC
TrevBatWCC e2 Member 6TrevBatWCC vcard England8 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 3:16 PM

Two fine shots, Moira, and like both versions equally (despite what Macromeister says about V2!) Wink V1 is a good record shot of the event, and V2 concentrates the eye on the delicate right-hand edges of the white flower Smile
Trev Smile

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MacroMeister
16 Nov 2012 - 3:24 PM


Quote: Two fine shots, Moira, and like both versions equally (despite what Macromeister says about V2!)
Trev Smile

You seem to be trying to qualify what you say by referring to what I said and making it sound as if I said something very negative? It's that word 'despite' that does it. Might be better to say 'I can't agree with what MacroMesiter said because I think..."

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gary_d
gary_d e2 Member 6534 forum postsgary_d vcard Wales13 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 4:03 PM


Quote: Shot #2. So much of it seems out of focus. I can't find an initial viewing point.

Is there a rule that all parts of an image has to be in focus, how boring would that be, the art is combining the in and out of focus areas to produce a pleasing final image.

I point to your hubby Moira for great examples of this art.

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SUE118
SUE118 e2 Member 6SUE118 vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 4:29 PM

What a lovely backdrop to take flowers against.Smile

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SUE118
SUE118 e2 Member 6SUE118 vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 4:34 PM

I see this new member is now having a go at you Moira I AM NOT IMPRESSED. As some one commented earlier you take a photo how you see it and don't worry about all the technical stuff. From your Friend Sue. Arghhhh

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MacroMeister
16 Nov 2012 - 4:45 PM

OK. I retract in full my earlier constructive comments, and this is my new comment.

Moira - I love those lush blooms which you have captured so well in shot #1, and that black backdrop makes the perfect setting for the fabulous pose the judge is striking. It gives me a frisson of joy to behold it. In shot #2 I love the fine selective focus you have achieved in the rim of the flower, set off exquisitely against the out of focus areas which in its entirety is quite delightful. Full marks yet again, for a pair of top-notch shots, and a very well deserved vote from me.

I think that covers everything. But do let me know if it doesn't.

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7435 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1022 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 5:10 PM


Quote: OK. I retract in full my earlier constructive comments, and this is my new comment.

Moira - I love those lush blooms which you have captured so well in shot #1, and that black backdrop makes the perfect setting for the fabulous pose the judge is striking. It gives me a frisson of joy to behold it. In shot #2 I love the fine selective focus you have achieved in the rim of the flower, set off exquisitely against the out of focus areas which in its entirety is quite delightful. Full marks yet again, for a pair of top-notch shots, and a very well deserved vote from me.

I think that covers everything. But do let me know if it doesn't.

You've honed your skills in sarcasm. Work on your inner vision and imagination, and your emotional intuitiveness now, and you may well find this site an interesting place to be.

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carper123
carper123 e2 Member 283 forum postscarper123 vcard United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 5:13 PM

Two wonderful images, Moira, luv v1, awesome detail and sharp as a knife.
Well done.
Darryl. SmileSmile x

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MacroMeister
16 Nov 2012 - 5:28 PM


Quote:
You've honed your skills in sarcasm.


I only wish to comment on photographs. I'm not at all interested in making personal remarks like that. So I shall not respond directly. This is a site that allows members to put up photos. They can be voted on, UA'd, and commented on. 'Comment' (look it up) includes criticism dict link or here another dict link. I think criticism should be given when you see something that you think/feel is personally at odds with what might make a better shot. 'Better' might mean a better quality image from a technical point-of-view, or it could mean better in evoking more emotions and thoughts if it were done in a different way. It's not an attack on the person posting the shot, but it's meant to give the poster a range (some comments come from others) of comments and viewpoints which might enable them to get a different perspective on what they have created.

But why criticise? Why not all be pals, slap each other on the back, vote for each other, invite each other around for supper tonight? I'll tell you why... because your shots will not improve. I want mine to improve, and I'm the first to admit there is room for improvement. I think about it all the time.

If you look at some of the comments I have made today and in the past couple of days, you will see that I have highly praised some, including giving a UA this morning. Not only do I praise but I say why it is good. Others I may criticise, and yet others I will both praise and criticise. It seems that I am only allowed to give praise. Is that diktat by clique?

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7435 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1022 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 5:38 PM


Quote: I'll tell you why... because your shots will not improve. I want mine to improve, and I'm the first to admit there is room for improvement. I think about it all the time.

I have learned a terrific amount here, firstly by looking at other people's images and analysing in my own mind why some things work for me, secondly by taking on board constructive comments from people who have taken the time to understand what I am trying to achieve. You will see over the next week or so that I have a number of uploads coming up which are reworked versions of earlier uploads, following very helpful suggestions that I have received.
The site is constructed in a way that enables members to do this, to follow the progress of a member's work, their ideas, passions, intentions. I find it unwise to attempt to offer advice until I have understood these points - at that point I feel able to criticise (I hope) constructively.
If you want to learn here, look for members who are on the same wavelength artistically, learn from them, ask their advice. It does work.
Your manner may be unfortunate and misleading but you are presenting yourself, in a number of portfolios, as a loud-voiced, know-all pub bore, intolerant of other people's vision. There are quite enough of them already on the site...
Moira

Last Modified By mrswoolybill at 16 Nov 2012 - 5:50 PM

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cats_123
cats_123 e2 Member 104023 forum postscats_123 vcard Northern Ireland25 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 5:50 PM

the judge clearly has the decision at his fingertips Grin

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MacroMeister
16 Nov 2012 - 5:55 PM


Quote:
Your manner may be unfortunate and misleading but you are presenting yourself, in a number of portfolios, as a loud-voiced, know-all pub bore, intolerant of other people's vision.
Moira

Why is this necessary? I have restricted my comments to photographs, not specific insults to people. I'm afraid you are defeating your argument. If you want to get me banned by antagonising me - forget it!

Last Modified By MacroMeister at 16 Nov 2012 - 5:56 PM

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7435 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1022 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 6:01 PM

PS I saw your UA, and totally agree with it, I had it bookmarked - if you don't like aspects of the site and want to improve it you could concentrate on supporting the excellent portfolios that are criminally neglected, piotrus33 being one of them. A major problem here is that members who do not communicate well in English lose out.
Edit-

Quote: If you want to get me banned by antagonising me - forget it!

Coincidentally, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

Last Modified By mrswoolybill at 16 Nov 2012 - 6:08 PM

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MacroMeister
16 Nov 2012 - 6:14 PM


Quote: PS I saw your UA, and totally agree with it, it was on my short list - if you don't like aspects of the site and want to improve it you could concentrate on supporting the excellent portfolios that are criminally neglected, piotrus33 being one of them. A major problem here is that members who do not communicate well in English lose out.

I agree with that (it seems we are suddenly agreeing!). But why are those excellent portfolios neglected? Piotrus33 has some really good images Piotrus33. I agree that they will not be to everyone taste, but the quality and care that has gone into them is obvious. So why do they get quite low votes and comments? I think Pete put his finger on it yesterday in the thread I started on 'voting' (my bold type) thread reference


Quote: The RC (reader's choice award) was introduced because a few members used to complain about the Editors Choice Award and the fairness of the system. The idea was it gave members the opportunity to vote on photos they thought were very good. What we never considered when doing that was that beginners think most photos are good, friends think their friends photos are good, and people who like photos of sunsets think they are the best. So we end up with a system that doesn't work like intended. Most are happy with it as it is, some complain from time tio time. It's possible to use it in a useful way but you have to strip away the aspects that aren't aligned to how you want it to work.


Last Modified By MacroMeister at 16 Nov 2012 - 6:15 PM

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7435 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1022 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 6:28 PM

I am on record as suggesting that an RC should be awarded to a member's first upload to achieve a certain result (and to perhaps make that threshold lower for Juniors), as an incentive to improve - but then no more.
When I joined the site the wording was on the lines of 'Click here if you like this photograph'. It was simpler, and more meaningful. 'Votes' introduced a more charged, controversial feel that I regret. But I do feel that the current system is infinitely preferable to the VS experiment, which people including site staff talk about 'playing' - like an arcade game.
Incidentally if you look at my portfolio you will see that I have never uploaded a sunset, sunrise, red squirrel, robin, kingfisher, Big Wet Foreground Rock...

Last Modified By mrswoolybill at 16 Nov 2012 - 6:34 PM

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lifesnapper
lifesnapper e2 Member 8lifesnapper vcard England1 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 6:28 PM

Lovely colourful images Moira, such wonderful Blooms.

John Smile

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woolybill1
woolybill1 e2 Member 7woolybill1 vcard United Kingdom65 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2012 - 7:56 PM


Quote: But why are those excellent portfolios neglected? Piotrus33 has some really good images Piotrus33. I agree that they will not be to everyone taste, but the quality and care that has gone into them is obvious. So why do they get quite low votes and comments?

Simple: photographers such as Piotrus33 frequently have little or no English so they can not easily interact with other members in a positive, friendly fashion. It's the interaction that creates mutual interest, understanding and appreciation, which in turn foster artistic improvement.

Very few U.K. members of this site are able or prepared to write simple comments in plain English that members from Eastern Europe can decode with the aid of a basic dictionary. A Czech member, a schoolteacher with very limited English, specifically requested contacts in the German language; as far as I know I was the first and only person to respond, a correspondence that has only recently lapsed.

Fruitful interaction takes a great deal of time and effort. Blunt, tactless critique even when well-intended drives off the tentative and the sensitive in droves.

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pdcche
pdcche  4 United Kingdom
16 Nov 2012 - 8:22 PM

Some lovely flower colours there Moira, Peter..

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7435 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1022 Constructive Critique Points
17 Nov 2012 - 6:05 PM

As a postscript, I should add that the above demonstrates why I try to avoid getting involved in the Forums. The Gallery is (normally) a much saner place to be.

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frz67
frz67  4 Italy32 Constructive Critique Points
18 Nov 2012 - 9:33 AM

I've read with interest the above exchange of ideas, thinking that it all started with a picture of a flower, which are normally intended as peace sign....
Bill's point about interaction is a good one. not always easy to express yourself in a different language and there are many examples on this site of foreign members which receive little attention, because there are no descriptions in their photo or because they do not interact with other members.
since the site is not only about photography but it has also a social network connotation, I think it is quite normal that the numbers of votes may not reflect the quality of the picture.
treasures are not easy to found, but at least we have to look for them

btw V2 is my favourite, exactly because there's a large part of the picture out of focus leaving more room for the imagination.
suggesting is much better than showing.

francesco

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Glostopcat
Glostopcat e2 Member 8234 forum postsGlostopcat vcard England2 Constructive Critique Points
22 Nov 2012 - 5:37 PM

A very serious process this judging, you've captured the moment perfectly

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