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Piety (Jerusalem 2013)

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I have attempted here to suggest that piety is classless.

Camera:Canon EOS 5D MkII
Lens:EF24-105mm F/4L IS USM
Recording media:JPEG (digital)
Date Taken:29 Jul 2013 - 12:00 AM
Focal Length:84mm
Lens Max Aperture:f/4
Aperture:f/8
Shutter Speed:1/100sec
Exposure Comp:0.0
ISO:320
Exposure Mode:auto
Metering Mode:evaluative
Flash:no
White Balance:AWB
Title:Piety (Jerusalem 2013)
Username:davetac davetac
Uploaded:13 Nov 2013 - 8:40 AM
Tags:General, Jerusalem, Landscape / travel, Photo journalism, Portraits / people
VS Mode Rating 98 (35.71% won)
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Comments

This photo is here for critique. Please only comment constructively and with suggestions on how to improve it.
mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7455 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1031 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2013 - 9:28 AM

Travelogue and cultural reportage. A tricky subject, you don't want to intrude into a private moment. You have kept back which is good, I wish you had moved back another pace, stooped down, angled the camera down a few degrees, to get less of the Wailing Wall above, more of the foreground text below. The cut-off bit here is enough to be a distraction, not enough to be significant informative foreground interest in its own right.
So my inclination is to go for a closer crop, to put the emphasis on the faces and the actual bit of wall that they are concerned with. Looking away from the camera they will still keep their privacy.
I also want to rotate a tiny bit clockwise, for the vertical of the wooden panel.
I'll upload a Modification shortly to demonstrate.
The site hasn't picked up your camera settings - when this doesn't happen automatically could you go into Edit and add them manually please?
Moira

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paulbroad
paulbroad  782 forum posts United Kingdom860 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2013 - 4:59 PM

Are they two different classes? I wouldn't know. A decent record but you give no info and I suspect a wide aperture as the front figure is sharper than the rear one. Lighting does look low and thus a little flat. Lift the contrast and brightness a touch.

Paul

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davetac
davetac e2 Member 526 forum postsdavetac vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2013 - 5:27 PM

[file:///Users/davidtachauer/Desktop/Piety.jpg]

I have re-cropped to include the text but don't see any problem with the vertical fidelity of the cabinet.
I have also tweaked the curves adjustment a touch.
They are not separate classes but probably complete strangers. My subject in the foreground is a down and out. Penniless and homeless but still totally committed to his religion. The figure in the rear is a classic Hasidic Jew.
The Western Wall (which BTW is not part of the ancient temple contrary to popular belief) is available 24 hours a day to anyone regardless of strength or not of faith or weight of wallet.

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banehawi
banehawi Critique Team 10903 forum postsbanehawi vcard Canada2898 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2013 - 6:03 PM

Hi David.

I like this shot. BTW, your uncropped upload didnt make it; try going to the modifications tab, click upload a modification, and select your image. It will show as a mod.

The image is not vertical. I dont understand how you can judge this by eyen when measuring it in Photoshop shows the degree to which its off vertical, Ive uploaded a screenshot in Mod1. Not a huge issue tough if the viewer soent notice.


I like what the image is trying to portray, but as Paul mentioned, its not so easy for some of use to distinguish classes here, - and maybe its that were not familiar with the area. I see a Hasidic jew alongside a non Hassidic person, which is the the difference that stands out.

Anyway, - its good overall. You need to upload, or by comment let us know your shot settings. The man nearer us is sharp and well defined, the one further away is blurred, - perhaps he was moving? Its only by looking at the exif data we could tell.

I agree that the prayer book partially shown would be best whole, - or, not there at all. Its simply a bright object that attracts the eye from the main point of the image, so, just like that black felt jewellers use to display diamonds, remove distractions.

Ive uploaded two mods along with the screen shot with the vertical measure; mod2 is cropped toexclude the book, straightened, and the shadows lifted a little; mod3, I have increased the blur on the wooden partition and the person there rather than trying to get it sharper.

Nice work,



regards


Willie

Last Modified By banehawi at 13 Nov 2013 - 6:04 PM

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davetac
davetac e2 Member 526 forum postsdavetac vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2013 - 6:04 PM

I cannot see how to post the exif information.

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7455 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1031 Constructive Critique Points
13 Nov 2013 - 7:19 PM


Quote: I cannot see how to post the exif information.

Click on the Options button below your picture, then on Edit photo , then at Edit photo information click on the Exif tab. Complete the boxes, then click on Save.

Quote: don't see any problem with the vertical fidelity of the cabinet.

If your software includes a Grid, check the image against it. When there is a dominant vertical at or near to the middle of the frame, it is quite distracting for the viewer if it isn't true.
Moira

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paulbroad
paulbroad  782 forum posts United Kingdom860 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2013 - 8:45 AM

If necessary, just type it in.

Paul

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davetac
davetac e2 Member 526 forum postsdavetac vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2013 - 11:01 AM

[quote][/quoteIf your software includes a Grid, check the image against it. When there is a dominant vertical at or near to the middle of the frame, it is quite distracting for the viewer if it isn't true.
Moira

Yes I do have a grid in Aperture which is my preferred editing software. It shows the cabinet to be on the button vertical. So I just don't know what else I can do.
The original image has the whole of the table top including the entire opened prayer book but it impinges on the image so I have cropped out about 75% of that area but left the rest in to suggest context. Without the opened book and the second figure my "drop out" could be facing any wall anywhere.
Don't get me wrong. I always welcome critique and I am still trying to work out (Aperture is not very intuitive in this respect) how to post a curves adjusted and slightly re-cropped image. I hope God will hurry up and give me some patience.

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mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7455 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1031 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2013 - 12:22 PM

Thanks for adding your Exif. I wish I could save the grid over the image - looking at the right hand edge of the panel I see a clear divergence from the vertical! See Willie's first Mod.

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davetac
davetac e2 Member 526 forum postsdavetac vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2013 - 1:02 PM

See version 2. (I think the prayerbook is now too dominant but even a portion of it is crucial to the image)

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banehawi
banehawi Critique Team 10903 forum postsbanehawi vcard Canada2898 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2013 - 2:55 PM

I agree David, - Aperture for me is simply the worst image editor I have ever seen, user hostile I would say. I have an imac, and will look at this on the iMac later to see how it measures verticals.

I prefer the crop with no prayer book visible. The two men are the subject,



Regards


Willie

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banehawi
banehawi Critique Team 10903 forum postsbanehawi vcard Canada2898 Constructive Critique Points
14 Nov 2013 - 5:56 PM

Hi David.

Ive just spent a very frustrating 20 minutes with Aperture and this image.


heres what I found, and perhaps it will help. It will also show how difficult this programme is!

When I opened the image, I found exactly what you found, - the image is perfectly straight. BUT on closer examination, what I saw in Aperture was actually cropped! The back of the mans black coat on the left was missing.

So why?

In the adjustment panel on the left, the Straighten box was checked, so I unchecked it, and the image rotated to what the original image shows, - its not straight.

Then, using the crop grid, I overlaid the grid, which shows its not straight, and then did a screen capture. I am uploading the screen capture to show that Aperture is showing the uncorrected original as not straight.

So perhaps you were seeing the same thing?

Check the scree shot mod, - you can see its clearly not straight.


regards


Willie

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davetac
davetac e2 Member 526 forum postsdavetac vcard United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
16 Nov 2013 - 9:16 AM

I've now uploaded a second version which is cropped tighter on the figures while including the whole prayer book. I am ambivalent as to which one I prefer. The open (but unused) book is absolutely integral to the image. The man in the foreground clearly has no need of it and is lost in the intensity of his deep religious experience. The wooden structure is a free standing cupboard by the way (you wouldn't want to drill and plug a 5,000 year old structure) containing prayer books, caps and various other accessories for the free use of visiting worshipers and although it appears vertical to me +\- a couple of minutes it may itself be standing off true. In The original image it certainly is crooked so it's been straightened as well as cropped.
The Hasidic Jew in the background is deliberately softened (but not too much) to emphasise my subject.

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