Login or Join Now

Upload your photos, chat, win prizes and much more

Username:
Password:
Remember Me

Can't Access your Account?

New to ePHOTOzine? Join ePHOTOzine for free!

The Indians

Join Now

Join ePHOTOzine, the friendliest photography community.

Upload photos, chat with photographers, win prizes and much more for free!

Add Comment

Large version recommended. The so called 'normal' version strongly advised against

Taken yesterday. 3nd upload in "The Parade" series

Bangkok, Thailand. June 2008

this is a recrop of yesterday's upload, as suggested by Tommy. It's growing on me Smile . Main problem is that it is quite a tight crop... so quality starts suffering.

focal lenght 70mm
exposure time 1/500 sec
aperture f/2.8
iso 640 (okay, could have dropped that a bit Smile )
taken at 17h50 (meaning it was getting dark)

Camera:Canon EOS 5D
Lens:24-70 mm
Recording media:JPEG (digital)
Title:The Indians
Username:MediumSizeUnavailable MediumSizeUnavailable
Uploaded:27 Jun 2008 - 10:56 AM
Tags:Black & white, Photo journalism, Portraits / people
VS Mode Rating 102 (100% won)
These stats show the percentage of wins and the rating score that your photo has achieved. You can go to the VS Mode by clicking on this icon.

Signup to e2

Signup to e2 to see which photo this has won or lost against in the vs mode
Votes:Voting Disabled
Critque wantedCritique Wanted
Has Modifications Modifications Welcome (Upload a Modification)
Awards have been disabled on this photo

Comments

This photo is here for critique. Please only comment constructively and with suggestions on how to improve it.
fatherpie
fatherpie  6 England12 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2008 - 11:11 AM

Think the tight crop works. The DOF is absolutely brilliant. Dave

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

DaveU
DaveU e2 Member 81339 forum postsDaveU vcard England121 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2008 - 11:26 AM

It's certainly an interesting crop, tight and concentrating on the faces. The limited DOF adds to the interest hugely. Maybe consider an even tighter crop to cut the guy on the right's face in half. For balance with the LHS, but it also changes the dynamic of the image and makes the guy toward the back a much stronger focal point.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

SteveCharles
27 Jun 2008 - 11:35 AM

Interesting, I like the experiments you are doing at the moment. This is quite dark (figuratively, not technically), I feel they are ganging up or surrounding me. And it works, because if you are that close to people, you don't necessarily focus on those closest to you, so has a very 'real' feeling.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

francisg
francisg  10703 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2008 - 11:44 AM

My only problem with this is that the Dominant face isn't sharp. and is distrracting. The tight crop works well, as does the Monochrome.

Frank

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Boyoclark
Boyoclark  6 Wales1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2008 - 12:01 PM

This works much better for me. I am seeing the picture as a whole rather than being drawn to one side. It's good, with very little noticeable reduction in quality.
Bryan

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7396 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom971 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2008 - 12:41 PM

Interesting crop, because I've come upon the two uploads together and with the full frame I'm trying to decide who is the story - it's definitely the back row, all those individuals trying to dominate the picture each in his own slightly different way. But which one of them wins? I started off thinking it was the fellow second from left in the full picture, he's trying the hardest, then decided it has to be the tall guy. So this crop suits me fine.
Moira

Last Modified By mrswoolybill at 27 Jun 2008 - 12:46 PM

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

BrokenAir
BrokenAir  6 United Kingdom
27 Jun 2008 - 12:46 PM

Like it alot, and the crop works really well, what a really lovely pic ^_^

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

thetriguy
thetriguy  9 United States12 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2008 - 1:06 PM

I think this is an excellent image that says much. The out of focus face in the front does not bother me at all. In fact the focus on those in the middle tend to draw me in to the image more which is what I think you are trying to do. The one piece that really gets me (almost scares me) is the hand on the front fellow's shoulder and the look on the face of the person behind. Is he trying to get to me? Does he want to see me better? Is he a distraction for what may happen next? (I know, I watch too many mystery shows.) But the feel for this is quite moving to me.
Best, Bill

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

zarquon
zarquon  647 forum posts England55 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2008 - 1:52 PMConstructive Critique!This comment was flagged as constructive critique! 

I really like this image a lot. The depth of field and the expressions on the faces has provided a huge amount of interest. The impression is that of being very close to a crowd... walking through a group of people who are walking in the opposite direction.

The monochromatic treatment helps to define and refine the graphic elements of this image. I am less sure about the tonal compression in the image. The beard is devoid of detail and the whites of the eyes of the tall, in focus face, in the middle distance on the left side of the frame, are not especially white.

The colour is dark enough to sit somewhere between zone 2 & 3 (red X) when in ought to be around somewhere around zone 8 (green X) on the provided modified zone system exposure scale. The clipping shows the values for RGB and the red box shows roughly the area used to measure the values. The box is drawn larger than real life so that it is easier to see. All of these RGB values would be far too low for the whites of eyes.

My frustration with this image is that as a composition, it is outstanding. As a technical work, it falls short of outstanding. I desperately wanted to see a more graphic representation so that is the modification I have chosen to produce. Please feel free to disagree. Smile

Overall... A really outstanding composition that required some additional technical twiddling. I would suggest that shadow detail should not (as a general rule) be purchased at the expense of the available highlight detail. In other words, try not to compress the tonal range... but give emphasis to the tonal values you want to draw attention to, by exposing correctly and placing them carefully. I hope to see more work of this calibre.

z.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Hoops
Hoops  6 Thailand
27 Jun 2008 - 2:02 PM

Better.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Cormy
Cormy  6 England
27 Jun 2008 - 6:53 PM

I enjoyed this.The tight crop works well for me.
Cheers
Alan

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

rontear
rontear e2 Member 11rontear vcard England4 Constructive Critique Points
27 Jun 2008 - 9:01 PM

Love the shallow dof Koen. Ron.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

TommyStr
TommyStr  8 Norway3 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 5:24 AMConstructive Critique!This comment was flagged as constructive critique! 

To be honest the 'good critique' doesn't really make many valid point imo. His main argument is that your exposure is wrong.


Quote: I would suggest that shadow detail should not (as a general rule) be purchased at the expense of the available highlight detail.

If it was exposed so that we had more shadow detail the white shirts and headgear would have no detail at all. The exposure is pretty much as good as it could be for the circumstances..obviously the eyes could have been brightened in post production, but sometimes that looks funny. In this case I think it would look funny as it wouldn't make sense when you consider the 'weak' light on the rest of his face.

Also the mod offered, a treshold effect, has little to do on a photography site. If this was a design site it would have been relevant. To me, this image is not much about the graphic shapes anyway, but dof and mood makes the image, which Jeff also mentioned in his introduction - which gets lost in a treshold representation.

I don't mean to critize your effort Jeff, you've obviously put a lot of work into it. And I'd welcome you to critique my images any day. My point is only that a long comment doesn't always equal valid critique (this one can be used against me lol), and in this case I feel the critique offered wasn't really valid. Obviously the critique team didn't agree with me lol


Quote: The impression is that of being very close to a crowd... walking through a group of people who are walking in the opposite direction

I think this remark is spot-on.

the crop is slowly growing on me too Smile Tongue

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable

I marked it a good critique tommy

LOL

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable

I don't find it very useful for myself, but I can imagine some people will find it usefull, which is why I marked it.
the eyes... the white of Thai and Indian people's eyes almost never is white. about the blacks... I don't decide on the look of a photo by the use of graphics. I fiddle until I have an overall photo that pleases me, and whether parts turn out to be blown out or clipped doesn't really matter for me from that point on, as it was clearly that particular overall photo that pleased me.
I guess Jeff's critique says something about how he approaches his photography and your says something about how you approaches yours. They are two different approaches. I happen to be much closer to your approach, but many people will be closer to Jeff's, and for them his comment will be very useful. Which explains my marking.
And which is why I mark yours as well, for those who have a different view on photography

Thanks to all for the comments, thanks to Jeff for taking the time to go in-depth, and for the illustrations (like the graphic approach, but merely for certain use... a cd cover, a poster, perhaps even a book cover), and thanks Tommy for giving some good counterweight.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318436 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 9:27 AM

It's great to see this sort of debate happening on images. I'm feeling the critique flags are helping here. And this is the sort of stuff that really gives it all the edge!

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

zarquon
zarquon  647 forum posts England55 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 9:50 AM


Quote: To be honest the 'good critique' doesn't really make many valid point imo. His main argument is that your exposure is wrong.

Hi Tommy. Thanks for an interesting response. I was not propounding an argument... merely voicing a personal opinion. Opinions are never wrong. We can all think whatever we like. Smile My views are based on my own experiences and your views will be based on your experiences. It does not make either viewpoint 'wrong'.

I was not arguing that the exposure is wrong. I was pointing out my observations. You had quoted my suggestion. It was not an order. My personal view of how an Indian visage should appear in a photograph has been tempered by the work of Don McCullin and Ami Vitale. I completely accept that your own view is different.


Quote: Also the mod offered, a treshold effect, has little to do on a photography site...

I have worked extensively with Kodalith film (remember film? Wink ) and it produces just such an effect... reducing the tonal variations to a line drawing. It was doing that long before Adobe hit the streets with Photoshop v1. I don't have any difficulty in accepting that any image created by manipulating light and a light sensitive material, may be included within the broader definition of photography. As lith film is a purely photographic process, I don't see why it has, "little to do on a photgraphy site." YMMV


Quote: I don't mean to critize your effort Jeff, you've obviously put a lot of work into it. And I'd welcome you to critique my images any day. My point is only that a long comment doesn't always equal valid critique (this one can be used against me lol), and in this case I feel the critique offered wasn't really valid. Obviously the critique team didn't agree with me lol

All critiques are valid. Disagreeing with an opinion is also valid. The disagreement, per se, is not capable of invalidating an opinion. Thanks for the invitation, Tommy... I will take a close look. Wink

Jeff

Last Modified By zarquon at 28 Jun 2008 - 9:51 AM

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

zarquon
zarquon  647 forum posts England55 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 10:07 AM


Quote: I don't find it very useful for myself, but I can imagine some people will find it usefull, which is why I marked it.

Hi, Koen. This is a fair point


Quote: I fiddle until I have an overall photo that pleases me, and whether parts turn out to be blown out or clipped doesn't really matter for me from that point on, as it was clearly that particular overall photo that pleased me.

This is no different to my approach and I suspect it is true of many people who have an interest in photographic representation. The word 'Photographic' encompasses the use of light and graphics. Wink


Quote: I guess Jeff's critique says something about how he approaches his photography and your says something about how you approaches yours. They are two different approaches.

I am always open to new approaches. I am happy to say we are all different... can you imaging how much use you would derive from ePHOTOzine, if we were all to think about our image creation in precisely the same way?


Quote: Thanks to all for the comments, thanks to Jeff for taking the time to go in-depth, and for the illustrations (like the graphic approach, but merely for certain use... a cd cover, a poster, perhaps even a book cover), and thanks Tommy for giving some good counterweight.

Thank you, Koen. It is the diversity that makes us an interesting species to study.

Jeff

Last Modified By zarquon at 28 Jun 2008 - 10:16 AM

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable


Quote: It is the diversity that makes us an interesting species to study

brrrrr... now that makes me feel like a bug Wink

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

zarquon
zarquon  647 forum posts England55 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 10:22 AM

/gets microscope Wink

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable

lol... don't forget some needles to make sure I keep still Smile


Quote: It's great to see this sort of debate happening on images. I'm feeling the critique flags are helping here. And this is the sort of stuff that really gives it all the edge!

So Pete... what do you think Smile

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

zarquon
zarquon  647 forum posts England55 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 12:11 PM


Quote: Lol... don't forget some needles to make sure I keep still

Smile

/sharpens 10 metre long needle... complete with telescopic sight.
(should just about make it to Belgium from here) Wink

Last Modified By zarquon at 28 Jun 2008 - 12:13 PM

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

TommyStr
TommyStr  8 Norway3 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 2:35 PM

Hi Jeff, wrote my comment as I woke up (with a slight hang over) so it probably came off a little stronger than intended lol. Anyway, valid wasn't the right word, I agree all critique is valid. I read your critique mostly as a critique of the exposure, which I still think it comes across as. I don't agree with that (as explained above), and felt having this marked as good critique could lead people to belive that it should have been exposed differently (i.e. for more shadow detail as you say) while such an exposure could have ruined the image with blown out highlights. Again, this is only my opinion..Smile

As for the mod, it was just silly of me to mention that. We're all people who appreciate visuals here, and many members will obviously appreciate the visual qualities of images which are not necessarily 'pure photography' (which is a very individual description anyway). Hope there are no hard feelings Jeff and excuse the way my comment was written. cheers

On a related note, I would like to add this to the "real photography vs digital imaging/art" debate which is contantly ongoing on the site:
I've seen Pete award images that are even 100% digitally created, and while I personally think it would've been nice to keep this a site where every image has at least some elements of photography, that's not my call. It's difficult so find a way to draw the line as well. Every member can choose what they want to see and click, and if some members like it well thats a good thing. Would perhaps have been good to create a separate "design" gallery where members could upload images which are photographs merged with vector graphics, or 100 % digitally created images? Being a designer, I would certainly visit the gallery and probably contribute too. I only feel that for the members who are only interrested in 'pure' photography it's sad that they waste their time clicking thumbnails in the gallery which turn out to be made in a 3d program or which consists of only 10% photography. What do you guys think?

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable

he he ... not sure if Pete still welcomes the debate as he did before lol Smile
I saw the thread Tommy, and I saw the images. Or at least a few until I lost interest (not because they were bad, just because I didn't feel any relation to them. once the newity went, there was nothing left for me). Wish the guy posting them was an obnoxious person, so it would be easier to say 'out with them' lol. Turns out he used to be on the site as a photographer, and due to his physical condition he couldn't do that anymore, and started creating his digital images.
When I completely disregard who he is or where he came from or his affection for the site (as perhaps I should) I would rather not see these images on epz. Pete did mention it's easy enough to switch off the Digital Art category, but isn't it so that you can (and probably will) put your picture up in 3 categories, meaning that it will still just as well appear for everyone to see ? but okay, I can pick them out easily enough from the thumbnail gallery, and it is easy enough to disregard them as such... but only now, with only one - or a few - person(s) at most uploading these images. But what if the gallery becomes a haven for dozens of people's fully digitally created uploads, which you can't really block out for yourself, assuming what I said above about the different upload categories is correct ?

I think that saying that there is photography involved - the skintextures are based on photos, for example - is not a valid one, and is really stretching things way beyond the acceptable. Besides, did the person take those photos himself ?

Problem is, critiquing this comes across all too easily as trying to have a go at a person. Which is why I think the site should take a clear stand on things towards the site members, and also have some understanding towards people who would rather not see these images (and who have a fair point I think) and thus make a better blocking system then the one we have now.

but now... about that possibility to only show the large version if one chooses to... how about that ?
Smile

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

banehawi
banehawi Critique Team 10781 forum postsbanehawi vcard Canada2803 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 4:33 PM

Certainly brings my attention to the man looking over the shoulder, which I wasnt focusing on in the last one.

As with most of your shots, its got human interest all over it, - and as the critique contest shows, you spark lots of debate.

As always with this type of image, it a very personal thing, depends on likes and dislikes. I for example dont like the title! I do prefer the closer crop to the last, - and Dave version I prefer.

One technical point you might find useful, - for the 5D, the interim ISO steps, 640 rather than 800, usually create more noise, not less, - so 800 may be better than 640 for noise.

And of course I will upload a mod, - maybe an artsy one to pee someone off!

Regards

W

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable


Quote: maybe an artsy one to pee someone off!

Tommy ! They're calling you ! Grin


Quote: One technical point you might find useful, - for the 5D, the interim ISO steps, 640 rather than 800, usually create more noise, not less, - so 800 may be better than 640 for noise.

I didn't know that. But why on earth would they do that ?
Frankly there was no need to go so high with the ISO (and shoot at 1/500 sec). Those people were stationary (as in deadlike lol). Guess I chose that setting because often I was shooting moving people at a greater aperture. the circumstances were changing all the time, so I guess I set the iso at 640 to cover the widest range of circumstances. But again... why on earth would they do that ?


Quote: and Dave version I prefer

well, at first I thought about cropping in the nose on the rhs as well, but I went for Tommy's choice... easier to keep it square... Dave's crop means even more quality loss at a decent size... and well, I just like to pee Dave off Grin

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable


Quote: I for example dont like the title!

The title makes sense Willie, if you were there lol. It was a parade from Lions Club... and they came parading by per country (or state in case of the US). So you can expect a 'The Americans' and a 'The Texans' lol. I wanted it to stay related to the parade-theme

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

banehawi
banehawi Critique Team 10781 forum postsbanehawi vcard Canada2803 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 5:08 PM

I found the info on the 5D ISO someplace, - I will send you the link if I can find it again, I have experienced this myself, and now avoid these middle ISO numbers.

The title isnt really an issue, - wanted to get more discussion and set some sort of record for discussion on one of your pics!

Seriously, - living in North America, the term Indians has been misused for so long (remember Columbus, - when he arrived here he thought it was India, so the native people became Indians), - so it just sounds not quite right to me, - people from India are invariably referred to as Asians, perhaps being too politically correct.


W

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

zarquon
zarquon  647 forum posts England55 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 5:08 PM


Quote: Hi Jeff, wrote my comment as I woke up (with a slight hang over) so it probably came off a little stronger than intended lol.

I did not take your comments as being offensive in any way, Tommy. (perhaps you just need to drink some stronger beer) Wink


Quote: Anyway, valid wasn't the right word, I agree all critique is valid. I read your critique mostly as a critique of the exposure, which I still think it comes across as. I don't agree with that (as explained above), and felt having this marked as good critique could lead people to belive that it should have been exposed differently (i.e. for more shadow detail as you say) while such an exposure could have ruined the image with blown out highlights. Again, this is only my opinion..

I was suggesting that a general approach to tonality, with respect to tonal range that was available in any given image, may be a useful starting point. The net is devoid of inflection and visual cues, consequently there is a lot of room for misunderstandings in short written pieces.


Quote: As for the mod, it was just silly of me to mention that. We're all people who appreciate visuals here, and many members will obviously appreciate the visual qualities of images which are not necessarily 'pure photography' (which is a very individual description anyway).

Week beer and a headache were your co-conspirators here. Wink As indicated, lith film is entirely dedicated to reducing all tones to black and white (digital equivalent of 1 or zero) and thus line art. I had wanted to drag something more graphic out of Koen's image, because I was trying to illustrate where I was going with my thought processes. Smile


Quote: Hope there are no hard feelings Jeff and excuse the way my comment was written. cheers

None whatsoever, Tommy. I am far too old and ugly, to let life bother my struggle to live in harmony with the world I inhabit. Wink "cheers"... is this more beer? You must have a great job.


Quote: On a related note, I would like to add this to the "real photography vs digital imaging/art" debate which is contantly ongoing on the site:
I've seen Pete award images that are even 100% digitally created, and while I personally think it would've been nice to keep this a site where every image has at least some elements of photography, that's not my call.

As soon as an image is digitised, it gets to be a digital image. I "went digital" in 2003. Until then I was happily using mechanical cameras that I purchased during the early 70s and my large format cameras were dating from the 40s. It seems to me that going digital has caused me to upgrade rapidly... more kit including new cameras, computers and software.

So much so, that for taxation purposes, the government recognise new kit as an essential expense and they treat digital cameras the same as the regard computers. Previously, I would have had to have good justification for complaining about my inability to replace my Sinars.


Quote: It's difficult so find a way to draw the line as well. Every member can choose what they want to see and click, and if some members like it well thats a good thing. Would perhaps have been good to create a separate "design" gallery where members could upload images which are photographs merged with vector graphics, or 100 % digitally created images? Being a designer, I would certainly visit the gallery and probably contribute too. I only feel that for the members who are only interrested in 'pure' photography it's sad that they waste their time clicking thumbnails in the gallery which turn out to be made in a 3d program or which consists of only 10% photography. What do you guys think?

I guess the people who marched up a mountain with a tent and wet collodion plates thought that film was a new-fangled idea and cheating in some way. Today, some people think that film waqs brilliant and that it is the 5 Mpx cellphone camera that is the killer of all things photographic.

Images that are created with some sort of sensitive medium and some sort of imaging device, do count as photographic endeavour, to me. I am unable to draw much and I am interested in the melding of illustration and photography (as a curiosity) so that I see all imagery as informing how I do my work.

I don't want to ascribe artificial boundaries and categories, which are tenuous at best, to a genre of work so that it will only serve to prevent me from looking at or taking part in something new, that may well be responsible for helping to improve my own image creation.

For good or bad, I want to keep an open mind on what I see.

Jeff

Last Modified By zarquon at 28 Jun 2008 - 5:12 PM

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable


Quote: Seriously, - living in North America, the term Indians has been misused for so long (remember Columbus, - when he arrived here he thought it was India, so the native people became Indians), - so it just sounds not quite right to me, - people from India are invariably referred to as Asians, perhaps being too politically correct.

LOL Willie, you Canadians are weird. That's just like saying "let's switch on the technical appliance" when you want to switch on the TV, allthough the TV probably just wants to be called a TV Wink

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable

of course, err... thinking that a TV actually wants to be called anything, might be considered as weird as well Wink

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

TommyStr
TommyStr  8 Norway3 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 6:56 PM

Didn't even know there was a thread Koen...was only refering to general comments on uploaded photos. Maybe I should actually start to have a look at the forums, instead of using your board as one lol..good night

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Grimm
Grimm  7587 forum posts6 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 7:06 PM

Sorry Koen. I think the original upload is stronger than this cropped one. Even considering my small niggle with the original, it is still better. The composition, content, and boldness of the original is missing in this picture. The only thing that is retained here is that fat bloke that caused me to comment negatively in the first place.

Dont you think, had the original photo been entirely in focus it would have been perfect? Wink

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable

problem is that I don't know my camera enough Glenn. meaning I know that at 2.8 the people in the front will be out of focus, which I honestly really like. Others have mentioned the attraction in that. What I hadn't considered - because I don't know these things - is that (in my opinion at least) the oof on the man in the right is pleasing, where as for mr chubby it is unpleasing, basically because they are at different lenghts from the lens.
I am convinced that increasing the aperture number, and bringing them all into focus would have given me a very good photo, and I'm sure it was the safest solution for the situation. but I'm not convinced that it would - for me at least - have given me the best (most pleasing) photo. but even at this point I can't really tell which aperture and which focal point would have given me that best solution, considering I wanted part out of focus and that the oof must look pleasing. for example, I very much like how the oof works on the man on the rhs... I find it very pleasing for the eye, but then, slightly increasing the aperture, or shifting the point of focus towards mr Chubby, might have made that man on the rhs look oof in an unpleasing way - as is now the case for mr Chubby. So not sure what overall effect that would have had. I'm not good in visualising things if I can't actually see them before me.
So I agree with you to the extend that an all in focus photo would have given me a sure deal and a pleasing deal and for most viewers the best deal. Just not exactly the deal I was looking for Smile
I still very much like the original, and if I ever do a blurb book for myself, I'm pretty sure that either the original or this crop will be in it. But I must remind myself not to show that page to anyone but myself, as almost nobody but me will like it lol.
Thanks again for commenting btw

night night Tommy

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Grimm
Grimm  7587 forum posts6 Constructive Critique Points
28 Jun 2008 - 10:36 PM

I see your point. I do get the same problem when shooting group pictures. Atleast f5.6 at a distance, and focusing on mr. chubby might have given you the first to third rows in focus. But then again it will probably be underexposed. That is why I make it a point to shoot with a flashgun when its a group shot. And as you said it is not the effect you are trying to achieve.
Tricky this thing photography. It just will not give you everything in a platter. I think that is why we are in this hobby. Had it been easy, I'd be in a fly fishing forum right now. Or maybe stamp collecting! Smile

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable

quickly hides stamp collection

err... absolutely Glenn !
Wink

Am I wrong to think that at f5.6, exposure might have been just fine though in this case considering the 640 ISO and the 1/500 sec shuttertime ? think the digital grain might have looked a bit more unattractive though.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Pete
Pete Site Moderator 1318436 forum postsPete vcard ePz Advertiser England96 Constructive Critique Points
30 Jun 2008 - 12:17 PM


Quote: So Pete... what do you think

I think it's great that the debate has continued and you probably have one of the most detailed discussed photos on the site, which is fantastic....oh what did I think about the photo? I found the focus point too messy, also the composition didn't work for me. So I've roughed up what I would might have done if it was my shot. The blurring of the background person has made our attention go to the centre person and his hand on the person in front which now tells a different story...maybe?

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable

great... I start with a photo of seven people and end up with a close up of a hand lol. Thanks for the mod and the opinion Pete. for me Tommy struck the golden middle way. I like the total shot, there's just something about their expressions (or lack of) that is so intriguing and that there are so many of them enhances that feeling for me, but as the focus is ahum, dodgy for so many, tommy's suggestion for me offers the best solution, getting rid of the main oof problem and still focusing on those expressions.
And I like square Smile

Last Modified By MediumSizeUnavailable at 30 Jun 2008 - 2:58 PM

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

shortski
shortski  8 England1 Constructive Critique Points
1 Jul 2008 - 8:43 AM

LOL all of the above great discussion and constructive critique-I however still like it as was and the cropped version a great shot methinks...jojo

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

chensuriashi
chensuriashi e2 Member 8132 forum postschensuriashi vcard England17 Constructive Critique Points
2 Jul 2008 - 3:23 PM

I had to recharge my battery after all of that...OMG....Chen.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

MediumSizeUnavailable

LOL
It all made sense at the time Smile

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

clevercloggs
4 Jul 2008 - 5:27 PM

god portrait.

would suggest that you blurr the person on the left leaving just the one peeking over the first persons shoulder and his hand on that persons shoulder.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

- Original Poster Comments
- Your Posts

Add a Comment

You must be a member to leave a comment

Username:
Password:
Remember me:
Un-tick this box if you want to login each time you visit.