Login or Join Now

Upload your photos, chat, win prizes and much more

Username:
Password:
Remember Me

Can't Access your Account?

New to ePHOTOzine? Join ePHOTOzine for free!

Time and Tide, Sandsend Dawn 2

Join Now

Join ePHOTOzine, the friendliest photography community.

Upload photos, chat with photographers, win prizes and much more for free!

New PortraitPro 12 SALE + 10% OFF code EPZROS814

Upgrade to e2

Tired of clicking to see a large version? Upgrade to e2 to browse all photos automatically at their largest size.
Add Comment

A crop of an image I put on here a little while ago which did quite well on here but in club competition I was slammed by the judge and told to crop it . What do you all think . Should I just let go of the image , ?....Phil

Camera:Nikon D300 Check out Nikon Nation!
Recording media:JPEG (digital)
Title:Time and Tide, Sandsend Dawn 2
Username:phil99 phil99
Uploaded:8 Jan 2013 - 3:34 PM
Tags:Coast, Dawn, Landscape / travel, N. yorkshire, Sansend, Whitbyb
VS Mode Rating 103 (100% won)
These stats show the percentage of wins and the rating score that your photo has achieved. You can go to the VS Mode by clicking on this icon.

Signup to e2

Signup to e2 to see which photo this has won or lost against in the vs mode
Votes:91

Comments

phil99
phil99 e2 Member 744 forum postsphil99 vcard United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 3:39 PM

http://www.ephotozine.com/user/phil99-51534/gallery/photo/time-and-tide--sandsen...

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Badgerfred
Badgerfred e2 Member 7Badgerfred vcard Wales
8 Jan 2013 - 3:47 PM

Super image, like the composition,
Fred.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

jennialexander
jennialexander e2 Member 1045 forum postsjennialexander vcard United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 - 3:50 PM

I would say the comments & votes on here are perhaps a better judge than your average club judge. I have come across only a couple who give good constructive critique (rontear being one ) I personally like the space on the left which I guess is the suggested area to crop?
Jeni

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Humblebee
Humblebee  2 England
8 Jan 2013 - 3:51 PM

Wow! What a powerful image, beautifully captured Phil, was a lot calmer when I was there earlier this year Wink ... Carol Grin

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Bickeringbush1

Nice shot

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

NDODS
NDODS e2 Member 33146 forum postsNDODS vcard United Kingdom102 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 3:54 PM

Judges can often be the cruelest of people. Go with your gut instinct whilst at the same time thinking about what had been said.

For me the image works exceptionally well as shown, however on the other hand I would also have liked to have seen more ocean to the left.

Regards Nathan GrinGrinGrin

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Sezz
Sezz e2 Member 9617 forum postsSezz vcard England15 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 3:54 PM

I'm with Jennie, I've just viewed your previous version and like it slightly better for the extra space and the diagonal of the shoreline where the water meets the stone path! Superb work though - both! Smile
Congrat's for your GEA

Sarah *

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

IanBurton
IanBurton  465 forum posts United Kingdom7 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 3:59 PM

Hi Phil, it's all down to personal taste but I do prefer this new crop as it works a lot better (IMHO) in connecting the right hard railings to the bottom of the frame and guiding the eye through the picture. Well done Ian.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

NaturesHaven
NaturesHaven e2 Member 2252 forum postsNaturesHaven vcard England5 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 4:11 PM

I like this very much.................GrinGrinGrin

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Meheecho
Meheecho  1275 forum posts United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 - 4:15 PM

I like the shot as it is--shows nature doing what it does
Steve

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

danbrann
danbrann e2 Member 10473 forum postsdanbrann vcard 15 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 4:16 PM

In my opinion this one is better than the previous one and as usual the judge is correct. As you know Phil the judge is Judging it against others and has to justify why it doesn't win. One must also take into account is it being being judged in a beginners comp, an advanced comp, an inter club or a federation competition.
Whilst I like this better of the two the other should not have been slammed and I honestly thought the days of speaking harshly about images had disappeared from the judging circuit.
I think this revised image will do well in any competition.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

LesF
LesF e2 Member 7176 forum postsLesF vcard 8 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 4:26 PM

It's all subjective Phil, it was one judge/person point of view, I can see why he suggested cropping it but slamming it is another thing.
So long as your happy with it that's what maters.


LesF

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

LynneJoyce
LynneJoyce e2 Member 6LynneJoyce vcard United Kingdom98 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 4:55 PM

You have reinforced my determination never to join a camera club with this as well as helping me revisit the places I went to in my youth!!! Gorgeous image.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

sweetpea62
sweetpea62 e2 Member 4sweetpea62 vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 4:57 PM

Brilliant capture Phil,congratulations on your GEA..Lin

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

barbarahirst
barbarahirst e2 Member 6barbarahirst vcard United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 4:57 PM


Quote: You have reinforced my determination never to join a camera club with this as well as helping me revisit the places I went to in my youth!!! Gorgeous image.

totally agree with Lynne here,
tho' I never was therein my youth !!!!!

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

lonely_oryx
lonely_oryx e2 Member 661 forum postslonely_oryx vcard England54 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 5:02 PM

Very dramatic

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

mrswoolybill
mrswoolybill Critique Team 7420 forum postsmrswoolybill vcard United Kingdom1001 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 5:03 PM

Lovely composition plus a touch of serendipity - that more distant wave breaking far left completes the frame perfectly and balances the lifebelt bottom right.
And I'm with Lynne...
Moira

Last Modified By mrswoolybill at 8 Jan 2013 - 5:03 PM

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Sezz
Sezz e2 Member 9617 forum postsSezz vcard England15 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 5:28 PM


Quote: and as usual the judge is correct.

I don't think the judge is always correct, it's down to their personal taste and thoughts on the day. I've seen work in competitions get high praise indeed and others I thought very worthy get equally low marks.. It's always subjective!

Just had another look at the two versions here and I still prefer the original, the crop on this one just a little to tight for me.. but that's just me Wink

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

nonur
nonur e2 Member 5nonur vcard Turkey8 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 5:41 PM

I love both versions, Phil. Choose whichever you like best.Wink

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

sut68
sut68  111994 forum posts England76 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 5:52 PM

Much prefer the original crop myself. This crop has lost that lovely lead from the bottom left corner created by the broken wave, this crop feels a little claustrophobic for me.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Tynnwrlluniau
Tynnwrlluniau e2 Member 439 forum postsTynnwrlluniau vcard Wales36 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 6:07 PM

Both work very well indeed. I feel a consensus view is far more useful than that of an individual as once you get beyond obviously problematic images (exposure problems, wonky horizons, poor composition etc) a judgement becomes very subjective indeed. The crop here does make the most of the railing as a lead line but then in your original the ramp and surf line also act as a strong lead. I might have cropped your original to the surf line so that it emerged precisely from the lh corner but that's really splitting hairs. For anyone to slam the original is just wrong imho. We can all fall into 'nice shot' mode but I feel that in the vast majority of threads people feel free to express their honest response. A shot that gains 87 votes is an excellent indication that you nailed it first time around.
Alun

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

JimL
JimL e2 Member 780 forum postsJimL vcard United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 - 6:30 PM

excellent image. well done

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

WhiteRose1
WhiteRose1 e2 Member 41035 forum postsWhiteRose1 vcard England134 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 6:43 PM

I've changed my mind twice already, Phil. You can make arguments for both versions but at the end of the day they're both strong images which ought not to be slammed at all.

Dave

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

jennialexander
jennialexander e2 Member 1045 forum postsjennialexander vcard United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 - 6:47 PM

Still stand by my original thoughts. The original has that lovely lead in from the bottom left hand corner. I have heard some very mediocre comments on brilliant photos (to me) & seen some extremely mediocre images get 1st 's in club comps.
Jenni

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

CDSINUK
CDSINUK  2223 forum posts England
8 Jan 2013 - 7:13 PM

wow agree with all above, fabulous shot Smile

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Fruitcake
Fruitcake Junior Member 4
8 Jan 2013 - 7:54 PM

Amazing!! Grin

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

achieverswales

I like the cropped version Phil! Having been a photographic judge for over thirty years, twenty of these judging Professional Photographers work for their qualifications, I have found that if you please every photographer you are not judging correctly just pleasing the masses! A bit like this site at times with the vote for me and I vote for you culture, this site works best, as judges should do, give an honest opinion then advice on how to improve the photograph, from being a Professional photographer earning my living only from my photography! I had done very little landscape and no nature photography, as this was not my field to put food on the table for my family, since retiring and from joining a camera club and this site I have improved my photography, from not knowing what an Histogram was! I only had Hasselblad and Nikon manual film cameras as a pro! To winning a few club competitions from my new found knowledge and still learning and still taking advice from some awesome photographers on this site, I do think that a lot of judges are biased towards their preferred field of photography, we have to put up with this if photography clubs are to continue, there is now a great shortage of judges in the UK. Like this site Photography clubs get photographers together to get people out there taking photos and should not be ruled out by any one wanting to learn, last off Phil this would have from this upload a score of 19 out of twenty if I was the judge, not sure what score it achieved.

Regards

Trev.

Last Modified By achieverswales at 8 Jan 2013 - 8:32 PM

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81102 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 8:44 PM

And in imvho ,

That's the deflation of confidence or illusion of brilliance that camera clubs (and judges) infer on images.

Perhaps a crop between the two for a little more breathing room.

I would have dampened down the bright red distraction and cloned out the dog poo sign , to hold all the attention in the atmosphere , then chinned the judge if he was a traditionalist...

Its a fine lead and image.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

tomcat
tomcat e2 Member 85912 forum poststomcat vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 8:45 PM

For what my opinion is worthSmile, I find the sign a tad distracting
Just takes the Oomph of the image - IMHO of course PhilWink

Adrian

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Suehh
Suehh e2 Member 739 forum postsSuehh vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 8:49 PM

I prefer the earlier version - more of a sense of scale and size - but both work very well.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Suehh
Suehh e2 Member 739 forum postsSuehh vcard England6 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 8:50 PM

PS - congrats for the GEA

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

mattw
mattw  105189 forum posts United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 8:57 PM

A judges view is just that - their own personal (hopefully considered) view.

Personally I think the crop here has improved the shot, as it has removed the empty space at the bottom, and thus give greater promanance to the building and wave. The railings with the orange life ring give a fantastic led in from the corner right up to the subject.

Last Modified By mattw at 8 Jan 2013 - 8:57 PM

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Eviscera
Eviscera e2 Member 81102 forum postsEviscera vcard United Kingdom149 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 9:21 PM


Quote: The railings with the orange life ring give a fantastic led in from the corner right up to the subject.

No it doesnt, Its to close to the edge of the frame , allows the eye to settle in the wrong place and interferes with the enhanced light on the wall that compliments the natural geometric lead into the building.

Did your cam judge muse this Phil ?

Last Modified By Eviscera at 8 Jan 2013 - 9:22 PM

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

fazzer
fazzer e2 Member 533 forum postsfazzer vcard United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 10:54 PM

Both beauties Phil, i'm inclined to have just a tad more at the bottom of the shot (somewhere between the two ).....happy new year Smile
jeremy

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

danbrann
danbrann e2 Member 10473 forum postsdanbrann vcard 15 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 11:09 PM

Bloody judges... What do they Know?.I have just come back from my camera club and the Judge didn't have a clue...a bloody highly commended..I mean what good is that to anyone. I had the same pic on here and it nearly got a readers choice.
There is a lot more to camera clubs than competitions and our club in particular has some excellent photographers the top ones being women which is very refreshing indeed. I thoroughly enjoy the crack and looking at other peoples work.
Keep up the good work Phil. I think you produce excellent work but I do wish you would stop coming up to Northumberland and stealing our best images.
Danny

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

martin.w
martin.w e2 Member 12352 forum postsmartin.w vcard United Kingdom22 Constructive Critique Points
8 Jan 2013 - 11:57 PM

LOL....some very different ideas about camera clubs Wink

I have been a member of mine for over 20 years and it hasn't done my photography any harm. I have pretty much the same experience as you, images that do well at the club die on here and the opposite is true of others....though not all the time of course. Me.....I also prefer the original.....though had I not seen it I could certainly live with this one Grin

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Sezz
Sezz e2 Member 9617 forum postsSezz vcard England15 Constructive Critique Points
9 Jan 2013 - 12:05 AM

Highly Commended, that's cool Danny Wink Great too that your camera club has more to it than competitions! I joined a club for the first time in September, the competitions are good and I'm doing extremely well at my first attempt but would like to see more hands on/tuition type of events at my club.. That aside I very much appreciate the time & effort that the judges put into the comp's, of course I value their opinion but I don't take it as set in stone otherwise I would have to try and emulate every image they gave a 20 to, where would the originality be then?

Phil's original image was/is extremely pleasing to the eye, he captured it like that and presented it as such - "go with your gut instinct" as Nathan said. I am going to stick with this for CC competitions Smile

S x

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Davesumner
9 Jan 2013 - 5:53 AM

Phil,

I haven't read any of the other replies but I have a lot of experience with camera club judges and if the UK one's are anything like the Aussie judges, take no notice. most camera club judges are so full of technical bullshit they forget to look at the images artistic merit at all. Why on earth would you crop that image?

For e.g. at my local club someone had entered an image of a golfer on a green with all the trees behind them had been pruned right down to the trunk. Not a great image but the image was intended as a bit of fun. The image was titled 'No Birdies Here' and the judge completey missed it.

Look for yourself HERE

I rest my case, so keep going with the image and treat camera club judges with the contempt that they earn themselves.

DaVeS

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Westroyd08
Westroyd08 e2 Member 2Westroyd08 vcard United Kingdom
9 Jan 2013 - 11:04 AM

I Think It's great even if the judge said he did't like the red life belt. Have you tried HDR ??Wink
David

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

phil99
phil99 e2 Member 744 forum postsphil99 vcard United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
9 Jan 2013 - 11:34 AM

Brilliant David just love that comment. Will give it a go when next there with my camera (NOT) . I seem to have stirred up a hornets nest re . judges though

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

mattw
mattw  105189 forum posts United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
9 Jan 2013 - 12:32 PM


Quote: No it doesnt, Its to close to the edge of the frame , allows the eye to settle in the wrong place and interferes with the enhanced light on the wall that compliments the natural geometric lead into the building.

eh?
I just say it as I say it, and I'm sorry if my opinion differs from yours.

the railings are as close to the edge of the frame as before, but now leading in from the corner just feels more comfortable for my eye.

As for 'allows eye to settle in the wrong place' - i don't understand this, as the railings still lead into the same place. The building, the wave smashing into the sea wall and the lovely light on that sea wall are all larger and more prominent in the frame.... so surly that helps?

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

TrevBatWCC
TrevBatWCC e2 Member 6TrevBatWCC vcard England8 Constructive Critique Points
9 Jan 2013 - 3:35 PM

I really liked the original, Phil - comparing this cropped version and toggling between the two, I think I prefer this, but there's nowt wrong with the original though! Wink
Trev Smile

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Fefe
Fefe e2 Member 2Fefe vcard United Kingdom28 Constructive Critique Points
9 Jan 2013 - 4:06 PM

Cripes......................... what a cafuffleTongue
I am sayin nowtGrinGrin
except I think a combination of both................
Excellent captureSmile
Diane

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

JohnChambersPhotography

I like both,both for what it is,if it appeals to me I like them that what they are for me that is what it's all about, first like it yourself then if anyone else likes it well that's a bonus, I like them, very good captures indeed.

John

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

AnnJ
AnnJ e2 Member 2AnnJ vcard Scotland
9 Jan 2013 - 6:17 PM

Wonderful crisp image, well seen and taken. Stick with your instincts. Ann.

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

Dinky65
Dinky65  1 United States
9 Jan 2013 - 11:40 PM

Great shot.Wink

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

benjita1
benjita1  1 United Kingdom
10 Jan 2013 - 8:32 PM

This is a cracking image!! Well captured in my opinion! Well Done!

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

CraigWalker
11 Jan 2013 - 1:20 PM

Superb and dramatic image. Like the cropped and uncropped versions. Decided to award a UA. Nice work!

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

annettep38
annettep38 e2 Member 3186 forum postsannettep38 vcard France30 Constructive Critique Points
15 Jan 2013 - 8:21 PM

A fantastic splash on a spectacular waterfront ? Can't see how a judge could nag about it!

Nominating Constructive Critique

Please ensure that you understand what is meant by Constructive Critique - see FAQ here. If you still wish to nominate this comment click Yes

- Original Poster Comments
- Your Posts

Add a Comment

You must be a member to leave a comment

Username:
Password:
Remember me:
Un-tick this box if you want to login each time you visit.