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A crop of an image I put on here a little while ago which did quite well on here but in club competition I was slammed by the judge and told to crop it . What do you all think . Should I just let go of the image , ?....Phil
| Camera: | Nikon D300  Check out Nikon Nation! |
| Recording media: | JPEG (digital) |
| Title: | Time and Tide, Sandsend Dawn 2 |
| Username: | 
phil99 |
| Uploaded: | 8 Jan 2013 - 3:34 PM |
| Tags: | Coast, Dawn, Landscape / travel, N. yorkshire, Sansend, Whitbyb |
| VS Mode Rating |
103 (100% won) These stats show the percentage of wins and the rating score that your photo has achieved. You can go to the VS Mode by clicking on this icon. Signup to e2Signup to e2 to see which photo this has won or lost against in the vs mode |
| Votes: | 90 |
Comments
I would say the comments & votes on here are perhaps a better judge than your average club judge. I have come across only a couple who give good constructive critique (rontear being one ) I personally like the space on the left which I guess is the suggested area to crop?
Jeni
Judges can often be the cruelest of people. Go with your gut instinct whilst at the same time thinking about what had been said.
For me the image works exceptionally well as shown, however on the other hand I would also have liked to have seen more ocean to the left.
Regards Nathan 
In my opinion this one is better than the previous one and as usual the judge is correct. As you know Phil the judge is Judging it against others and has to justify why it doesn't win. One must also take into account is it being being judged in a beginners comp, an advanced comp, an inter club or a federation competition.
Whilst I like this better of the two the other should not have been slammed and I honestly thought the days of speaking harshly about images had disappeared from the judging circuit.
I think this revised image will do well in any competition.
You have reinforced my determination never to join a camera club with this as well as helping me revisit the places I went to in my youth!!! Gorgeous image.
Brilliant capture Phil,congratulations on your GEA..Lin
Quote: You have reinforced my determination never to join a camera club with this as well as helping me revisit the places I went to in my youth!!! Gorgeous image.
totally agree with Lynne here,
tho' I never was therein my youth !!!!!
Lovely composition plus a touch of serendipity - that more distant wave breaking far left completes the frame perfectly and balances the lifebelt bottom right.
And I'm with Lynne...
Moira
Quote: and as usual the judge is correct.
I don't think the judge is always correct, it's down to their personal taste and thoughts on the day. I've seen work in competitions get high praise indeed and others I thought very worthy get equally low marks.. It's always subjective!
Just had another look at the two versions here and I still prefer the original, the crop on this one just a little to tight for me.. but that's just me 
Both work very well indeed. I feel a consensus view is far more useful than that of an individual as once you get beyond obviously problematic images (exposure problems, wonky horizons, poor composition etc) a judgement becomes very subjective indeed. The crop here does make the most of the railing as a lead line but then in your original the ramp and surf line also act as a strong lead. I might have cropped your original to the surf line so that it emerged precisely from the lh corner but that's really splitting hairs. For anyone to slam the original is just wrong imho. We can all fall into 'nice shot' mode but I feel that in the vast majority of threads people feel free to express their honest response. A shot that gains 87 votes is an excellent indication that you nailed it first time around.
Alun
I've changed my mind twice already, Phil. You can make arguments for both versions but at the end of the day they're both strong images which ought not to be slammed at all.
Dave
Still stand by my original thoughts. The original has that lovely lead in from the bottom left hand corner. I have heard some very mediocre comments on brilliant photos (to me) & seen some extremely mediocre images get 1st 's in club comps.
Jenni
I like the cropped version Phil! Having been a photographic judge for over thirty years, twenty of these judging Professional Photographers work for their qualifications, I have found that if you please every photographer you are not judging correctly just pleasing the masses! A bit like this site at times with the vote for me and I vote for you culture, this site works best, as judges should do, give an honest opinion then advice on how to improve the photograph, from being a Professional photographer earning my living only from my photography! I had done very little landscape and no nature photography, as this was not my field to put food on the table for my family, since retiring and from joining a camera club and this site I have improved my photography, from not knowing what an Histogram was! I only had Hasselblad and Nikon manual film cameras as a pro! To winning a few club competitions from my new found knowledge and still learning and still taking advice from some awesome photographers on this site, I do think that a lot of judges are biased towards their preferred field of photography, we have to put up with this if photography clubs are to continue, there is now a great shortage of judges in the UK. Like this site Photography clubs get photographers together to get people out there taking photos and should not be ruled out by any one wanting to learn, last off Phil this would have from this upload a score of 19 out of twenty if I was the judge, not sure what score it achieved.
Regards
Trev.
And in imvho ,
That's the deflation of confidence or illusion of brilliance that camera clubs (and judges) infer on images.
Perhaps a crop between the two for a little more breathing room.
I would have dampened down the bright red distraction and cloned out the dog poo sign , to hold all the attention in the atmosphere , then chinned the judge if he was a traditionalist...
Its a fine lead and image.
A judges view is just that - their own personal (hopefully considered) view.
Personally I think the crop here has improved the shot, as it has removed the empty space at the bottom, and thus give greater promanance to the building and wave. The railings with the orange life ring give a fantastic led in from the corner right up to the subject.
Quote: The railings with the orange life ring give a fantastic led in from the corner right up to the subject.
No it doesnt, Its to close to the edge of the frame , allows the eye to settle in the wrong place and interferes with the enhanced light on the wall that compliments the natural geometric lead into the building.
Did your cam judge muse this Phil ?
Bloody judges... What do they Know?.I have just come back from my camera club and the Judge didn't have a clue...a bloody highly commended..I mean what good is that to anyone. I had the same pic on here and it nearly got a readers choice.
There is a lot more to camera clubs than competitions and our club in particular has some excellent photographers the top ones being women which is very refreshing indeed. I thoroughly enjoy the crack and looking at other peoples work.
Keep up the good work Phil. I think you produce excellent work but I do wish you would stop coming up to Northumberland and stealing our best images.
Danny
LOL....some very different ideas about camera clubs
I have been a member of mine for over 20 years and it hasn't done my photography any harm. I have pretty much the same experience as you, images that do well at the club die on here and the opposite is true of others....though not all the time of course. Me.....I also prefer the original.....though had I not seen it I could certainly live with this one
Highly Commended, that's cool Danny Great too that your camera club has more to it than competitions! I joined a club for the first time in September, the competitions are good and I'm doing extremely well at my first attempt but would like to see more hands on/tuition type of events at my club.. That aside I very much appreciate the time & effort that the judges put into the comp's, of course I value their opinion but I don't take it as set in stone otherwise I would have to try and emulate every image they gave a 20 to, where would the originality be then?
Phil's original image was/is extremely pleasing to the eye, he captured it like that and presented it as such - "go with your gut instinct" as Nathan said. I am going to stick with this for CC competitions 
S x
Phil,
I haven't read any of the other replies but I have a lot of experience with camera club judges and if the UK one's are anything like the Aussie judges, take no notice. most camera club judges are so full of technical bullshit they forget to look at the images artistic merit at all. Why on earth would you crop that image?
For e.g. at my local club someone had entered an image of a golfer on a green with all the trees behind them had been pruned right down to the trunk. Not a great image but the image was intended as a bit of fun. The image was titled 'No Birdies Here' and the judge completey missed it.
Look for yourself HERE
I rest my case, so keep going with the image and treat camera club judges with the contempt that they earn themselves.
DaVeS
I Think It's great even if the judge said he did't like the red life belt. Have you tried HDR ??
David
Quote: No it doesnt, Its to close to the edge of the frame , allows the eye to settle in the wrong place and interferes with the enhanced light on the wall that compliments the natural geometric lead into the building.
eh?
I just say it as I say it, and I'm sorry if my opinion differs from yours.
the railings are as close to the edge of the frame as before, but now leading in from the corner just feels more comfortable for my eye.
As for 'allows eye to settle in the wrong place' - i don't understand this, as the railings still lead into the same place. The building, the wave smashing into the sea wall and the lovely light on that sea wall are all larger and more prominent in the frame.... so surly that helps?
I really liked the original, Phil - comparing this cropped version and toggling between the two, I think I prefer this, but there's nowt wrong with the original though!
Trev
I like both,both for what it is,if it appeals to me I like them that what they are for me that is what it's all about, first like it yourself then if anyone else likes it well that's a bonus, I like them, very good captures indeed.
John
Superb and dramatic image. Like the cropped and uncropped versions. Decided to award a UA. Nice work!
A fantastic splash on a spectacular waterfront ? Can't see how a judge could nag about it!
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