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Close Fall

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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me which shot you prefer - 1 or 2.

Just write 1 or 2 in the comment section if nothing else

Even if you don't like either, you must "prefer" one to the other.

Even if you're not clicking, please say which one you like.



This is the foot of the main waterfall in the Valley of desolation near Bolton Abbey.

It's the middle shot of a HDR trio, but decided that the HDR wasn't needed as mos of the tone I needed were already in the shot.

the top of the falls was in bright sunlight and it did look a little too bright for a lot of people at the top of the shot - hence taking the top off.


In the mods there is an architecture shot taken on Sunday in Manchester, the waterfall was taken on Saturday.

Take a look and tell me which you prefer

Camera:Canon EOS 5D
Lens:17-40
Recording media:RAW (digital)
Title:Close Fall
Username:ade_mcfade ade_mcfade
Uploaded:10 Dec 2008 - 1:11 PM
Tags:Bolton abbey, Dales, Desolation valley, Harrogate, Landscape / travel, Skipton, Wharfdale, Yorkshire
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Comments

GrahamNobles
10 Dec 2008 - 1:18 PM

Waterfall, no contest.
Graham

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BurntOut
BurntOut  8321 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 1:18 PM

Prefer the waterfall shot TBH.

Like the lines in the architecture shot, but the vapour trail strikes a bit of a discordant note for me.

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stevieb
stevieb  102994 forum posts Panama2 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 1:19 PM

Ade, I'd be really interested in what the HDR does to the water on this. I've tried on a shot of Dochart Falls ealrier in my p/f, and the result surprised me. Are you going to bung one up for me?

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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014844 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 1:21 PM

Steve - take a look at the waterfalls 2 posts ago, they were taken around the same time and are HDR. Not that much different really.

Cheers folks

Ade

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RogBrown
RogBrown  73006 forum posts England10 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 1:23 PM

Still prefer the waterfall. My eye keeps getting drawn out of the frame by the crossing of the jet-trail & the cable in V2. Also not keen on the burnt-out sky in the middle & lack of detail bottom right.
Rog

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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014844 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 1:23 PM


Quote: Like the lines in the architecture shot, but the vapour trail strikes a bit of a discordant note for me

fair enough - a few people said that yesterday - but for me they mirror the line along the top of the buildings - linking the left to the right.

cheers for letting me know which you prefer

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Anthony
Anthony  135645 forum posts Scotland17 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 1:26 PM

1 for me mate.

Anthony

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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014844 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 1:28 PM


Quote: Also not keen on the burnt-out sky in the middle

A lot of people say that, but never actually say why Rog.

Why does it upset you?

Is it because of an EPZ convention that burn out is bad, or is it because you think there was something there and we can't see it, or something else?

not being an arse here mate - genuinely interested in why the burn out has upset you.

the truth of the shot is that you'd need to probably cover 12 or 14 stops to get detail everywhere in the shot, then it'd take on a more cartoon appearance. it'd not be what the eye actaully sees.

Last Modified By ade_mcfade at 10 Dec 2008 - 1:28 PM

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MarkBroughton
10 Dec 2008 - 1:29 PM

Out of the two, which are both very good shots, I prefer the waterfall shot Ade, but looking at your pf, you have some awesome architechtural stuff in there..
Mark

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sut68
sut68 e2 Member 111998 forum postssut68 vcard England76 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 1:34 PM


Quote: Error:
Your comment has less than 4 Characters please add more to make it valid

2

(Had to post the error as 1 character doesn't count) Wink

Last Modified By sut68 at 10 Dec 2008 - 1:34 PM

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JohnParminter
10 Dec 2008 - 1:34 PM

It's easy for me Ade, V1. I'm interested in landscapes and nature type shots, not that particularly interested in architecture shots or any other types for that matter.
Smile
John

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jeanie
jeanie e2 Member 105971 forum postsjeanie vcard United Kingdom6 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 1:42 PM

Waterfall. its my favourite sort of photography, personally, so I am drawn to that. Not drawn to architecture in quite the same way.

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Hanners
Hanners e2 Member 8875 forum postsHanners vcard Ireland10 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 1:46 PM


Quote: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me which shot you prefer - 1 or 2.

Just write 1 or 2 in the comment section if nothing else

Even if you don't like either, you must "prefer" one to the other.

Even if you're not clicking, please say which one you like.

Don't we have a critique gallery anymore? V1 is alright though I don't like the strange colours in the water, but as far as composition and shutter speed goes it's fine. I prefer V2 as I like the leading lines and vanishing point to it, the light and the different textures, glass, concrete etc, I would have cloned out the vapor trail but that just me as it doesn't do anything for the shot. Happy christmas Smile

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motorsportpictures

what a beautiful capture, love v2...
scott

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BillyGoatGruff
BillyGoatGruff e2 Member 7191 forum postsBillyGoatGruff vcard England199 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 2:01 PM

You may as well ask if people prefer apples or oranges.
Both of these shots display a high degree of skill.

Since you insist on a choice...
I prefer the waterfall:
To my eye at least it is inherently more beautiful for being a natural landscape rather than a constructed one.
Whilst I'm not immune to beauty in the constructed form (I actually work in the design of buildings such as these), I am more impressed and moved by things natural and unaffected by the hand of man. Which is pretty weird, considering how unnatural a photograph really is. Wink

Perhaps you should be asking "which is the better photograph?"
But that's a whole other can of worms!
Again impossible to answer since they were bothe shot by you with your own skill set, kit and taste and sense of quality.

Interestingly I've just had an apple and an orange for lunch.
Which do you think I liked best?
Smile
Bill

ps: Interesting experiment

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DOGSBODY
DOGSBODY  61432 forum posts England30 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 2:14 PM

Not a fair contest. The landscape is a good one whereas the street scene is average to say the least. I understand what it is that you are trying to prove but you need two images of equal merit for people to judge objectively and we will still have our own views on what we like and don't like.
I go for No.1 but only because i feel that it is the better photograph. Andy

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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014844 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 2:21 PM

Interesting Andy as I think the architecture is a better shot in many ways Smile

Some don't like the burn out in the distance, that was the point of the shot - everything draws you to the light. That's why I left parts of the road to the bottom right dark. I could have easilt lifted detail there, but i wanted a gradation from light to dark. Or vice versa, depends where oyu start!

Cheers everyone - one things for sure, putting the landscape up as the front image is getting more interest than the reverse yesterday

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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014844 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 2:24 PM


Quote: Don't we have a critique gallery anymore?

yes and if I were asking for critique I'd have put the shots there Smile

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Gary_Williams
10 Dec 2008 - 2:24 PM

Ade, for me it's 1 from a purely aesthetical view point – it looks pretty.

However I like 2 because it’s a well taken shot, which documents a moment in time – 90% sure that you won’t take the same shot in 5 year’s time. Things will be different, yellow lines might be red lines, might be a 20mph speed limit, Sainsbury’s local may be Asda local, blah, blah.

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glyndwr
glyndwr  766 forum posts Wales9 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 2:37 PM

Hello Ade, I prefer V1, the waterfall, but then I am biased because it is my favourite subject. There is some burn out in the water but still very nice.

Robert

Last Modified By glyndwr at 10 Dec 2008 - 2:38 PM

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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014844 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 2:50 PM

it may look burned out on a non-callibrated monitor Robert, but I did make sure that it wasn't when processing Smile

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DeSilver
DeSilver e2 Member 7DeSilver vcard England11 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 3:05 PM

I think it all depends on your outlook and your perceptions of city life and country life. Some people would say that the second shot was the "Valley of Desolation" after all what is a valley but somewhere with high escarpments on both sides. Both images have this I presume so then it comes down to what your own personal hell is.
By the way both images are great. Grin


David.

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davart
davart  9 United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 3:06 PM

Hi Ade I prefer 2nd pic. Initially the waterfall shot gives you a quick visual hit (which is probably why it would get clicked on as a thumbnail for more than pic 2), but if you keep coming back to the 2 pics, the waterfall shot does become a bit boring (technically accomplished though it is), its just a waterfall, its sole narrative is; water falling down a steep hill. Pic number 2 becomes more interesting with time because there are any number of narratives that your imagination can apply.

Both good shots, but if i had to live with one, it would be pic 2.

Dav.

P.S. just come back to edit these comments after reading some of the other posts. People are getting too hung up on getting all the technical bits right. The burnout on pic 2 seems to a point. For me the lasting quality of a picture is not its tecnical perfection (though that does help) but the hooks the picture has in drawing the viewer back to keep looking, many tecnically brilliant pictures don't do that. Anyway nuff said.

Last Modified By davart at 10 Dec 2008 - 3:12 PM

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Briwooly
Briwooly  8452 forum posts England5 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 3:13 PM

V1

Brian....................................

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Scottishlandscapes
Scottishlandscapes e2 Member 1068 forum postsScottishlandscapes vcard Scotland35 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 3:32 PM

The street scene is the better image and more unusual as well. The waterfall is very good but we see them all the time and dare I say better exposed (sometimes).
I like the clever use of the lines in the architectural, right up to the contrail from the passing jet (which I normal loathe and detest).
I hope this pleases your begging question.(pun).

Dougie

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NEWMANP
NEWMANP e2 Member 61587 forum postsNEWMANP vcard United Kingdom574 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 3:34 PM

i would say that the burn out at the bottom of the lower fall on my calibrated screen Wink is acceptable in this instance and the top water held in very well.
i said before and confirm that as a composition this is good and vastly better than the previous upload. in fact from loathing to liking in one small crop and a desaturation is a big journey for little input.

i like the leading lines and may post a v2 shot tomorow very similar, and no probs with composition and subject for V2, Dont mind about the vapour trail, it mirrors the lines, but cannot abide my eye being pulled to the centre where there is nothing to look at, i want to look at the pavement but my eye is pulling to the centre, its not because someone else says so its just an effect that works in that it makes you go there, but when you are there --so what!! if you know what i mean.
so by a little margin its V1 which is not that conventional anyway in terms of water shots, it shows some artistic flairin my opinion.

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Richsr
Richsr e2 Member 790 forum postsRichsr vcard England210 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 3:55 PM

Version 2 for me Ade - think it is the strong shot with good lead lines only problem for me is the strong white point which your eyes are draw to.
Richard.

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Wilmot
Wilmot  6338 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 4:48 PM

V1 for me because its so beautiful.
Steve

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f11digital
f11digital  1185 forum posts United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 4:53 PM

Why the repeat post?
John

http://www.ephotozine.com/photo/1073442

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albinoni
albinoni  6 United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 4:53 PM

Version 1 for me!
I like the lead in lines of version 2, but the not the intensity of light in the distance or the jet trail which seems to destract from the lead in.
Andy

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Scaramanga
10 Dec 2008 - 4:57 PM

I do like V1 but I prefer Valley of desolation from the 7th. Hope this helps. I saw V2 when it was originally posted and really liked the way everything seems to head into the direction of the light, even you on your bike. Then my boss walked in and I was back staring at a spreadsheet. I love the vapour, and have tried unsuccessfully all day to try and include one in some of my images.


I don't relly understand enough about the subject to give tremendous constructive criticism. Sorry.

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bfgstew
bfgstew  8668 forum posts England105 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 4:58 PM


Quote: Version 2 for me Ade - think it is the strong shot with good lead lines only problem for me is the strong white point which your eyes are draw to.
Richard.

Methinks this is Ade's intention Rich, no disrespect.

Both are of equal quality but both completely different. V1 Full of rich tones and pleasing to the eye, the water flow captured perfectly.
V2 Strong, sharp, angulated with lots of lead ins and strong light drawing you in.
Sorry Ade but I like both, but I think you have proved a point beyond doubt what the masses want, not necassarily what they like??? Wink
Stewart

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RobboB
RobboB e2 Member 777 forum postsRobboB vcard United Kingdom
10 Dec 2008 - 5:57 PM

I'm in the apples and oranges school but if you must V2 has the edge. Both very good

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colin beeley
colin beeley e2 Member 111072 forum postscolin beeley vcard England10 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 6:53 PM

one !

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Buffalo_Tom
Buffalo_Tom e2 Member 82322 forum postsBuffalo_Tom vcard Wales9 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 7:01 PM

Number 1.
Tom.

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Juliee
Juliee  8382 forum posts England4 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 7:18 PM

I prefer V1 simply because I'd rather look at at a water fall than Manchester!
Having said that, I do like the viewpoint lines and light in V2.
Both photographs pull you into the scene well, but I'd still rather be sitting at the bottom of a waterfall than on a street in Manchester!

Julie

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dandeakin
dandeakin  7201 forum posts England3 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 7:31 PM

V2 for me. I find it more interesting.
Dan

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MarkT
MarkT  9119 forum posts England2 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 7:43 PM

2 for me, 1 looks a bit over-cooked imo.

Cheers,

Mark.

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Bodiewil
Bodiewil e2 Member 746 forum postsBodiewil vcard Wales
10 Dec 2008 - 8:45 PM

No1 for me love the movement and the colours

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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014844 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 8:50 PM

Thanks for taking time to let me know everyone.

If you're confused by it all, I posted the same 2 shots yesterday but in reverse order. This was firstly to see if a different audience look at different subjects - see how many unique views they get etc.

Then secondly, on both days I've asked for people to tell me which they prefer.

My theory was that people who commented yesterday would in general, like the Manchester shot, and those who looked to day would like the waterfall - this is based on the thumbnail pulling power.

In general it's not that straight forward really, and with 2 shots that are reasonably close in quality terms (speaking as the man who took and processed them) its caused a healthy debate which I'm flattered by

Thanks for taking the time folks Smile

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DLLP
DLLP  627 forum posts United Kingdom
10 Dec 2008 - 9:38 PM

Now I know how lab rats feel....

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LesF
LesF e2 Member 8177 forum postsLesF vcard 8 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 9:41 PM

For my two penny worth V2 for been different, the lines etc plus the vapor trail don,t worry me because its Manchester and do they not have an airport there of some size.
V1 not your style, whatever your style is LOL so may be looks a bit foreign cause it you Ade.

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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014844 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 9:53 PM

take a look 2 years ago Les - almost all like this back then!

I moved on Wink

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rontear
rontear e2 Member 11rontear vcard England4 Constructive Critique Points
10 Dec 2008 - 11:14 PM

Power of nature Adrian. Ron.

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User_Removed
10 Dec 2008 - 11:18 PM

Hi Ade,
lovely shots. would prefer Version 1 and 2. both are different in their own league. Wink BTW liked the same two shots yesterday.

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GillyB
GillyB e2 Member 9316 forum postsGillyB vcard United Kingdom8 Constructive Critique Points
11 Dec 2008 - 1:14 AM

#1 for me ......but then I am more at home with waterfalls than architecture.

gill

Last Modified By GillyB at 11 Dec 2008 - 1:15 AM

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ade_mcfade
ade_mcfade e2 Member 1014844 forum postsade_mcfade vcard England216 Constructive Critique Points
11 Dec 2008 - 9:40 AM


Quote: BTW liked the same two shots yesterday

different order though Wink so effectively it's 2 different posts !

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heffalump
heffalump  6 United Kingdom
11 Dec 2008 - 11:14 AM

Two for me. I don't like the decapitation of the waterfall and preferred the original version with the burnt out sky. Nice tones and everything, but the urban landscape is a much more interesting shot, and you do them very well. I don't mind the crossing lines in the sky - cities are full of conflicting lines - and I love the way the rails draw you to the horizon.
Chris

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49er
49er  8564 forum posts
11 Dec 2008 - 6:36 PM

I prefer V1 as i like this subject matter, however it seems a little bit over proccessed. the colours seem (on my screen) a bit too colourful compared with true life. At first I did think it ws HDR so was surprised as a lot of HDR shots seem so far off real colour they are more art than anything else.
Kind regards
Edgar

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TelStar
TelStar  9116 forum posts United Kingdom
11 Dec 2008 - 7:00 PM

Number 2

Tel*

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danbrann
danbrann e2 Member 10474 forum postsdanbrann vcard 15 Constructive Critique Points
12 Dec 2008 - 12:10 PMConstructive Critique!This comment was flagged as constructive critique! 

Ade there are toomany things up for discussion and all of the images have their own qualities.
At a quick glance I prefer the waterfall I also prefer the waterfall inits cropped state. The white highlights of the sky in the previous water fall has nowt to do with EPz it is a purely visual thing and if you have the lightest element on an edge of frame it will lead your eye there.
I prefer v3 to v2 but i.m positive the answer lies somewhere in between V2 and V3.
I would imgine v1 is a much easier image to process and generally is without complications and at my time of life I prefer uncomplicated.
I'm sure my views would change if I was look at three 20x16 prints rather than a monitor.
Now then go and do some work and don't ask so many bloody questions. This has taken 20 minutes out of my life and I havn't even put the shopping away yet.
Danny

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paulcr
paulcr  91536 forum posts Ireland9 Constructive Critique Points
12 Dec 2008 - 12:12 PM

Waterfall> paul

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Guillaume
Guillaume  7119 forum posts United Kingdom2 Constructive Critique Points
13 Dec 2008 - 11:37 AM

V2 for me

Last Modified By Guillaume at 13 Dec 2008 - 11:37 AM

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hellsbells8868
14 Dec 2008 - 6:07 PM

V1 I love the magical feel to the waterfall.....but...
V2, i am drawn to the light and it keeps me with the image, so on this occasion v2 is my personal choice.....

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mikey_1967
21 Nov 2009 - 1:41 PM

The waterfall for me! Love your style!

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Bonico
Bonico  4 Romania
7 Jun 2010 - 9:48 PM

V1 is more interesting!

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