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Found burried under the rubble and from years ago goodness knows when two foxes (one a skeleton) the other frozen and crystalised, bit gruesome and not a very good picture - oof I know, thought to be freeze dried after a hard frost. I will have to go back and try harder next timeWink but interesting you may or not agree!
Many thanks for all c/c's on yesterdays "big job" image always most grateful for your time.

Brand:LEICA
Camera:Leica V-Lux 3
Recording media:RAW (digital)
Date Taken:24 Nov 2012 - 12:16 PM
Focal Length:40.4mm
Lens Max Aperture:f/3.9
Aperture:f/8.0
Shutter Speed:1/4sec
Exposure Comp:-0.33
ISO:100
Exposure Mode:Aperture-priority AE
Metering Mode:Multi-segment
Flash:Off, Did not fire
White Balance:As Shot
Title:mumified
Username:pluckyfilly pluckyfilly
Uploaded:27 Nov 2012 - 9:32 AM
Tags:Close-up / macro, General, Photo journalism, Wildlife / nature
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Votes:42

Comments

DeSilver
DeSilver e2 Member 6DeSilver vcard England11 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 9:58 AM

A bit gruesome yes but what a wonderful thing to find in the rubble.


David.

CarolG
CarolG e2 Member 7128 forum postsCarolG vcard Greece16 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 10:02 AM

How very sad, Ann, and not a pleasant sight to come across whilst working, I wonder what else the workmen will find Sad. Carol

Hermanus
Hermanus  2 South Africa
27 Nov 2012 - 10:33 AM

What a great discovery !! I am sure somebody somehere will want these Smile A great photo too, gruesome as it may be !

digital_boi
27 Nov 2012 - 10:42 AM

quite a find indeed as you say a tad gruesome but nature i guess turning out to be quite a site

Graham

Last Modified By digital_boi at 27 Nov 2012 - 10:43 AM
lonely_oryx
lonely_oryx e2 Member 661 forum postslonely_oryx vcard England54 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 10:43 AM

Sad capture

ringyneck
ringyneck  7304 forum posts United Kingdom18 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 11:12 AM

O,M.G. amazing image.

Keith

SlowSong
SlowSong e2 Member 54231 forum postsSlowSong vcard England28 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 12:02 PM

What a gruesome find, and rather sad too.
x

WhiteRose1
WhiteRose1 e2 Member 41028 forum postsWhiteRose1 vcard England133 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 12:44 PM

At least they don't smell anymore! Very Egyptian.

Dave

Daisymaye
Daisymaye e2 Member 5Daisymaye vcard Canada9 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 2:11 PM

OMG, the poor things starved to death. ......Sandy

pluckyfilly
pluckyfilly e2 Member 7282 forum postspluckyfilly vcard United Kingdom33 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 2:43 PM


Quote: OMG, the poor things starved to death. ......Sandy

probably froze before that Sandy in a very hard frost

TrevBatWCC
TrevBatWCC e2 Member 6TrevBatWCC vcard England8 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 2:45 PM

Gruesome and sad, but well seen Ann Wink
Trev Smile

canonfan
canonfan  4 United Kingdom
27 Nov 2012 - 3:11 PM

Gruesome indeed Ann. But well captured
Jim

achieverswales
27 Nov 2012 - 3:13 PM

They could have been put there deliberately Ann, in olden days they used to put cats and other animals in walls and foundations to ward of evil, not sure if this was the case here as I have never heard of foxes being used, there are pubs in Rochester Kent where during renovations cats have been found and now displayed in them. Below some info.

As recently as the early 20th century homeowners were warding off witches and evil spirits by placing shoes, and even dead cats in the walls, which can surprise owners carrying out renovations
As a buildings historian, I work with conservation architects and specialist builders who are repairing the UK's historic houses from manor houses to cottages, from the medieval period to Victorian. I see all the different building techniques and materials used over the centuries, whether cob, wattle and daub, stone, or brick. There are so many different types of building but they all have something in common; they were the homes of ordinary people who were subject to the same trials of life as each other.


In the days before science and technology, and burglar alarms brought a degree of security and certainty, our ancestors had to rely on more natural methods. In the medieval centuries, right up to the early part of the 20th century making their homes safe for their families meant not just keeping robbers and murderers out but also the powers of witches and other supernatural forces. This was done by drawing protective symbols on rafters, beams and window sills or even placing objects within the walls of their home, particularly shoes or animals.
When working with old buildings, it is not uncommon to come across a mummified cat or a child's shoes in the walls, over door lintels, under roof rafters, between the chimney stack and the wall and under the floor boards. These were the lengths people went to to influence the intangible; warding off evil spirits, witches' curses and disease, or more positively, encouraging fertility.
Because cats were so readily associated with witches, it would be perfectly normal to take a cat (usually already dead) and place it in a location that was vulnerable to witches entering the house. It was widely considered that witches could fly, so a witch could get in not just through the door or window but down the chimney too. Cats were also known to sense ghosts and other supernatural beings more readily than humans, which is why it was believed, their presence in the walls of the house helped ward off such malevolent forces.
Shoes under floorboard

The Museum at Northampton, historically the centre of shoe manufacturing in England, has an Index of Concealed Shoes, which registers all footwear discovered within historic houses, not just in the UK but across the world. There are about 1500 items logged and half of them are children's shoes and then women's shoes are more common that men's. The shoes also tend to be well-worn. If not now, shoes once used to retain the foot shape of the wearer and maybe, therefore their spirit.


It is also thought that the very shape of a shoe serves as a "spirit trap". This comes from the 14th century when John Schorn, the Rector of North Marston in Buckinghamshire, is reputed to have cast the devil into a boot, thus trapping him. Shoes could also be a symbol of fertility. Shoes found under the floorboards of bedrooms could indicate this.
Historic houses - what's lurking in your walls?
(copyright Ibis Roofing Ltd)
The discovery of mummified cats (or "Dried Cats" as they are officially known), is less common than shoes. In addition to protecting against witchcraft, it is possible they are also placed within the walls of houses to scare away vermin in those concealed areas. Trying to keep a perspective on all this, it is also possible that cats found beneath floor boards had, in reality, gone there to die and had never been discovered by their owners.
When carrying out repairs in old buildings, be careful to look around windows, doors, under roof rafters and behind old chimneys. The Northampton Index receives about one find a month, but curators there, think that hundreds of finds every year are simply thrown out.

Regards

Trev.

pluckyfilly
pluckyfilly e2 Member 7282 forum postspluckyfilly vcard United Kingdom33 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 3:14 PM

gosh Trev who would have thought itSad thanks for info

brownsilent
brownsilent e2 Member 7brownsilent vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 3:26 PM

Very interesting - this is what I think makes ephotozine different from all those other photographic web-sites.
Poor sods, how ever their end was.
Johanna

taggart
taggart e2 Member 942 forum poststaggart vcard United States12 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 3:38 PM

Always sad to see an animal who has frozen to its death, cold and hungry--- and your foxes are so beautiful!

Good reportage!

CaroleS
CaroleS e2 Member 432 forum postsCaroleS vcard United Kingdom3 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 4:10 PM

I wonder how long they have actually been there? Gruesome yes, but very intriguing and well captured too Ann.
Carole

barbarahirst
barbarahirst e2 Member 6barbarahirst vcard United Kingdom10 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 6:17 PM

quite shocking to see for me ...

Maiwand
Maiwand e2 Member 7Maiwand vcard England69 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 6:36 PM

Cracking good shots of the animals Ann and what a superb write up from the historical angle.GrinGrinGrin
Ron

tomcat
tomcat e2 Member 85867 forum poststomcat vcard United Kingdom15 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 6:42 PM

As Trev states, I'm thinking they were put there - possibly killed and someone just wanted to get rid of them - who knows


Adrian

bobhowell
bobhowell e2 Member 1bobhowell vcard United Kingdom1 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 8:46 PM

I agree with others about this being Sad and also thanks to Trev for his information and how what why. Very gruesome for people to find but also fact of life and thanks for sharing. Bob

pluckyfilly
pluckyfilly e2 Member 7282 forum postspluckyfilly vcard United Kingdom33 Constructive Critique Points
27 Nov 2012 - 9:03 PM

My husband was in deep conversation with the man doing the work and it was he that found the skeleton and body - these we're found under a collapsed wall, don't get me wrong I am grateful to Trev for the info which was a possibility but in this instance we are not talking about a house but a barn and a wall that fell trapping these poor animals before the frost took over and dry froze them!

Hop-A-Long
27 Nov 2012 - 10:36 PM

Good grief, what a thing to find, quite bizarre and gruesome. I have to say the red paint on the fence makes the scene a tad more macabre.

Andy

Tibetan
Tibetan  2 England
27 Nov 2012 - 11:03 PM


Quote: They could have been put there deliberately Ann, in olden days they used to put cats and other animals in walls and foundations to ward of evil, not sure if this was the case here as I have never heard of foxes being used, there are pubs in Rochester Kent where during renovations cats have been found and now displayed in them. Below some info.

As recently as the early 20th century homeowners were warding off witches and evil spirits by placing shoes, and even dead cats in the walls, which can surprise owners carrying out renovations
As a buildings historian, I work with conservation architects and specialist builders who are repairing the UK's historic houses from manor houses to cottages, from the medieval period to Victorian. I see all the different building techniques and materials used over the centuries, whether cob, wattle and daub, stone, or brick. There are so many different types of building but they all have something in common; they were the homes of ordinary people who were subject to the same trials of life as each other.


In the days before science and technology, and burglar alarms brought a degree of security and certainty, our ancestors had to rely on more natural methods. In the medieval centuries, right up to the early part of the 20th century making their homes safe for their families meant not just keeping robbers and murderers out but also the powers of witches and other supernatural forces. This was done by drawing protective symbols on rafters, beams and window sills or even placing objects within the walls of their home, particularly shoes or animals.
When working with old buildings, it is not uncommon to come across a mummified cat or a child's shoes in the walls, over door lintels, under roof rafters, between the chimney stack and the wall and under the floor boards. These were the lengths people went to to influence the intangible; warding off evil spirits, witches' curses and disease, or more positively, encouraging fertility.
Because cats were so readily associated with witches, it would be perfectly normal to take a cat (usually already dead) and place it in a location that was vulnerable to witches entering the house. It was widely considered that witches could fly, so a witch could get in not just through the door or window but down the chimney too. Cats were also known to sense ghosts and other supernatural beings more readily than humans, which is why it was believed, their presence in the walls of the house helped ward off such malevolent forces.
Shoes under floorboard

The Museum at Northampton, historically the centre of shoe manufacturing in England, has an Index of Concealed Shoes, which registers all footwear discovered within historic houses, not just in the UK but across the world. There are about 1500 items logged and half of them are children's shoes and then women's shoes are more common that men's. The shoes also tend to be well-worn. If not now, shoes once used to retain the foot shape of the wearer and maybe, therefore their spirit.


It is also thought that the very shape of a shoe serves as a "spirit trap". This comes from the 14th century when John Schorn, the Rector of North Marston in Buckinghamshire, is reputed to have cast the devil into a boot, thus trapping him. Shoes could also be a symbol of fertility. Shoes found under the floorboards of bedrooms could indicate this.
Historic houses - what's lurking in your walls?
(copyright Ibis Roofing Ltd)
The discovery of mummified cats (or "Dried Cats" as they are officially known), is less common than shoes. In addition to protecting against witchcraft, it is possible they are also placed within the walls of houses to scare away vermin in those concealed areas. Trying to keep a perspective on all this, it is also possible that cats found beneath floor boards had, in reality, gone there to die and had never been discovered by their owners.
When carrying out repairs in old buildings, be careful to look around windows, doors, under roof rafters and behind old chimneys. The Northampton Index receives about one find a month, but curators there, think that hundreds of finds every year are simply thrown out.

Regards

Trev.

I think Trev needs a vote for all his information don't you! be it relevant or not, regards Leon.GrinGrinGrinGrinGrin

pluckyfilly
pluckyfilly e2 Member 7282 forum postspluckyfilly vcard United Kingdom33 Constructive Critique Points
28 Nov 2012 - 11:00 AM


Quote:

I think Trev needs a vote for all his information don't you! be it relevant or not, regards Leon.

I already put a message above for Trev's inputWink

Glostopcat
Glostopcat e2 Member 8231 forum postsGlostopcat vcard England2 Constructive Critique Points
28 Nov 2012 - 9:48 PM

A very macabre find Ann, it's a mystery as to how they got there and open to interpretation. Perhaps they were poisoned and ended up dying in the barn or maybe they were put there as Trev suggested

Chinga
Chinga e2 Member 3Chinga vcard United Kingdom
2 Dec 2012 - 4:21 AM

So sad... Even more if they might have been put there in porpose as Trev explained... Sad death for those poor creatures... IB

accipiter
accipiter e2 Member 4accipiter vcard England57 Constructive Critique Points
13 Dec 2012 - 7:37 AM

Macabre but interesting and has drawn a lot of interest. A

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