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Are Nikon and Canon deliberately making poor mirrorless system cameras?


Lenscapon 4 64
15 Mar 2016 5:59PM
With their years of experience making great dslr's and their vast range of lenses; Nikon and Canon should be able to make a killer mirrorless systems - but they don't.

Are they protecting their position in the market by never making a complete mirrorless body that could highlight the suspicion many of have that the mirror is no longer needed and the dslr is obsolete?

Canon mirrorless lack an evf and Nikon have a small 1 inch sensor in a system that is more cute toy than tool. Same with Pentax who make a system for people with tiny hands.

It seems that only companies that failed in the dslr market dare to make a decent mirrorless system (Sony, Panasonic and Fuji)?

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themak 6 1.0k Scotland
15 Mar 2016 6:06PM
Controversial!
DaveRyder Plus
6 4.1k 2 United Kingdom
15 Mar 2016 6:20PM
Don't think I say Olympus failed in the DSLR market more a strategic move to mirrorless.

Lenscapon 4 64
15 Mar 2016 6:49PM

Quote:Don't think I say Olympus failed in the DSLR market more a strategic move to mirrorless.




Strategic retreat perhaps. But they then focussed on making the best mirrorless they could.

Like Sony and the A7 series and Fuji and the XP 2

But Canon, Nikon and Pentax don't seem to be trying very hard. Tactical plan to ensure they don't make something tnat could cannibalize dslr sales?
bwlchmawr 8 32 1 England
15 Mar 2016 7:49PM
Interesting idea. The latest Canon EOS M is quite good. Only lacks an EVF, I reckon. I agree that Nikon and Pentax's efforts are a bit niche.
davereet 15 431 United Kingdom
15 Mar 2016 8:05PM
I can't understand why Nikon and Canon don't make a decent mirrorless camera, as the profit on them must be enormous, they (mirrorless) have very few moving parts and are mostly circuit boards and software.
Which is much cheaper to manufacture than DSLR's.
And they cost lots more to buy than the equivalent DSLR.
Some of them don't come with things like intervalometers which even the entry level DSLR's have, you have to go to the manufacturers app store and buy one.
Maybe the mirrorless manufacturers are recouping the cost of research and development which must have been considerable.

Dave
speedprint 12 18 United Kingdom
15 Mar 2016 8:59PM
Might be worth a read http://pentaxrumors.com/2016/03/08/rumors-ricoh-wants-to-enter-the-mirrorless-interchangeable-camera-market/
Jeff
Paul Morgan 19 19.4k 6 England
15 Mar 2016 9:08PM

Quote:Don't think I say Olympus failed in the DSLR market more a strategic move to mirrorless.




M4/3 was just another step in the 4/3 development, I could see the changes coming when they first developed the E330.
redhed17 14 870 England
16 Mar 2016 4:42AM
I've always thought that Canon and Nikon have not gone into the mirrorless market in any serious way. They seem unwilling to impinge onto their DSLR sales.

Canon's offering is small, but they have a quite small DSLR that is not much larger. They also don't try to sell it all over the World. Some versions didn't get to the US for example. The styling was very poor, just being a rectangular box, but the latest one looks a bit better. But it can't do anything special that their DSLRs can't do as far as I can see, and without a viewfinder too.

Nikon have gone a bit weird with quite a small sensor compared to the mostly Micro 4/3 or APS-C sensors in mirrorless cameras, and many would not even consider them for that alone.

The styling and features have been poor and a confusing mix of styling for different models, with limited ergonomics. The pricing has not helped them too.

Some of them have very good AF and high frame rates though, which you would have expected them to incorporate into their DSLRs, but they seem very to be by separate tech teams who don't seem to talk to each other. Wink lol

Both Canon and Nikon may see themselves being left behind as the market sways towards mirrorless. You can't let the opposition put that much development in and expect to catch them up easily imho. Canon and Nikon may have to put different lens mounts and lenses that use those mounts when Fuji, Olympus, Sony etc, have already started down that track and are pumping lenses out quite regularly, and informing customers what to expect, to build confidence for people to make the switch or just add another system. Being open and showing your plans ahead is not what Canon or Nikon are very good at. :-/
JackAllTog Plus
11 6.0k 58 United Kingdom
16 Mar 2016 7:49AM
I think canon has mostly been ensuring that an EVF can be developed that is an acceptable professional replacement for the direct view you get with an SLR.
I also believe that this year they will release a serious EVF model.
All that said Canikon have loads of users with great lenses and as mirrorless offers a chance to change the lens system it will be a tough call for the lens market.
franken Plus
17 5.1k 4 United Kingdom
16 Mar 2016 8:22AM

Quote:I think canon has mostly been ensuring that an EVF can be developed that is an acceptable professional replacement for the direct view you get with an SLR.
I also believe that this year they will release a serious EVF model.
All that said Canikon have loads of users with great lenses and as mirrorless offers a chance to change the lens system it will be a tough call for the lens market.



Most of the latest EVF's are excellent and are no hindrance to photography.

A direct view with a DSLR is misleading as you're actually viewing the scene through a series of mirrors.
16 Mar 2016 8:43AM
An observation:
Most of successfull mirrorless cameras are m4/3s, direct descendants of compacts design. Not all of them sport phase detection AF even by now. The only happy exclusion here is Sony ( and probably Fuji). I take it Sony used the wealth of its video knowledge to build A6XXX series. Yet, even with unprecedented advertising support they have fairly modest sales figures. Modest for what they offer I mean.
Canon and Nikon were never big in consumer video market, and their attempts to "wed" compacts to APS-C do not impress. Will they push it looking at Sony?
Maybe not, they are still too big in compacts and DSLRs. However, they put a couple of stakes in - maybe just in case.
redhed17 14 870 England
16 Mar 2016 1:46PM

Quote:Most of the latest EVF's are excellent and are no hindrance to photography.

They are if you are trying to track something fast moving. Wink


Quote:A direct view with a DSLR is misleading as you're actually viewing the scene through a series of mirrors.
But the image you are seeing reflected is hitting your eye at the speed of light from the scene, plus an inch or so more than looking at the scene directly, so negligible delay, whereas any EVF system has to record the scene and play back the scene, and that will never be as fast as the speed of light. That is just physics, any record and replay has to incur a delay.

Now someone may say that you will have mirror blackout with an DSLR viewfinder, which is correct, and some EVFs also either blackout or freeze at the moment the shutter was pressed in a burst just as bad/good. Some of the newer EVFs may have a continuous image which does not blackout or freeze, but there will always be a delay from the record/display process.

I'd like a Sony RX100 III with an optical viewfinder, which looks very good through the EVF, so I'm not anti EVF, but for anything critical and fast moving I still want a DSLR. Others may disagree, and that is fine, there are lots of different cameras to choose from.
LenShepherd 12 4.2k United Kingdom
16 Mar 2016 7:57PM

Quote:With their years of experience making great dslr's and their vast range of lenses; Nikon and Canon should be able to make a killer mirrorless systems - but they don't.


Are you sure?
There is the Nikon 1 system Smile
I was at a lecture by a professional photographer last night. He showed 2 magazine front covers taken with a Nikon 1 where using a full DSLR system would have been impracticable.
Nikon also has three 1 inch sensor mirrorless sensors due this summer.
Good camera phones can take some excellent pictures, a pro can have the images on a picture desk within one minute and an amateur can have them edited and on social media in one minute.
What you call "killer mirrorless systems" are not the only good systems in town.
dark_lord Plus
16 2.5k 662 England
16 Mar 2016 8:24PM

Quote:Most of the latest EVF's are excellent and are no hindrance to photography


No.

But I'll take a look at some at that photo thing next week and maybe report back.

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