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Birmingham considers Linux


redsnappa 19 2.8k United Kingdom
6 Mar 2007 1:30PM
llink=http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39286157,00.htm]Brum Linux Project[/link]

It seems that Birmingham City Council may continue their linux trial and roll out linux workstations to its departments.

I hope none are installed in any of the schools I work in. We have a redhat web casching server and it is forever crashing while our windows 2003 servers just work, the cahos caused by giving regular end users linux workstations would be unimaginable.

After 6 weeks of using Linux at home & college its a mess just getting basic thing like USB to work is a nightmare. Installing software is not just a case of running an exe its a case of hours in a text editor.

The Council have not thought this one out, if the rolled linux workstations out on schools hundreds of interactive whiteboards costing over 1500 each would be rendered useless.
cossack2005 15 86
6 Mar 2007 1:51PM
I've used linux for years (both Redhat and more recently SUSE) ... found it much much more stable than windows and none of this please reboot your machine every time you install the smallest thing. Personally when you can only get Windows Vista I'll be making the move to linux perminantly.

Derek
stolzy 15 3.8k 7
6 Mar 2007 3:22PM

Quote:the cahos caused by giving regular end users linux workstations would be unimaginable

Some definition of the word chaos I'm not familiar with. Chaos in this sense presumably means a stable, free, open and secure operating system. And I guess this would be unimaginable to windows users.
I think its great that a local authority is being careful on how it spends public money and is not wasting it on software licence fees it doesn't really need.

Quote:nstalling software is not just a case of running an exe its a case of hours in a text editor.

If that's the case, you aint' doin' it right. Installing software on Linux does't seem to me to be any more difficult than windows (speaking as someone who has used both since either were invented.)
mdpontin 17 6.0k Scotland
6 Mar 2007 5:38PM

Quote:After 6 weeks of using Linux at home & college its a mess just getting basic thing like USB to work is a nightmare.


Or more accurately, you had problems getting USB to work. I imagine the average Linux user has had very few problems with USB.

Doug
strawman 17 22.2k 16 United Kingdom
6 Mar 2007 5:43PM
Anyone know how to get DS Linux to start up reliably. when it runs it works well, but there is only a 1 in 5 chance of it making it to the desk top, most times it hangs for no reason. I was going to use it as a recovery tool for if I have a major windows fault, but at the moment it is a bit lacking.
bmh1 15 572 1 United Kingdom
6 Mar 2007 6:30PM

Quote:Anyone know how to get DS Linux to start up reliably

I'm guessing you mean this DS Linux , rather than the DS Linux which is intended to run on a Nintendo DS (which I have booted with no problems).

Does it show you the kernel information as it boots, if not there is a list of boot options here which includes "2" as a run level 2 (text mode) option which should show you where it gets stuck ....

EDIT: Unless you need a small distribution I would choose a more fully featured Live CD version such as Knoppix as a rescue CD.

Bernard
redsnappa 19 2.8k United Kingdom
6 Mar 2007 6:48PM

Quote:nstalling software on Linux does't seem to me to be any more difficult than windows

Installing firefox in linux

Installing Firefox
From MozillaZine Knowledge Base

Basic installation instructions can also be found in the Firefox release notes.


Firefox system requirements are listed here. Download the latest version of the Firefox installer for your system from mozilla.com.


After downloading the Firefox .dmg file, double click the Firefox Disk Image to open (mount) it. When you double click on the mounted dmg it opens. You can then drag the Firefox icon within it to a Hard Disk location, such as the Applications folder. Important: Be sure to drag the Firefox application out of the disk image and onto your Hard Disk before running it. Do not double click the icon in the disk image!

After doing all the above, drag the .dmg file to the trash (the machine treats it as a disk, so it will appear as though it is being ejected). Or you can control-click it, or right-click it, and choose "Eject" [3].
[edit]
Linux

First, download the latest release to your home directory with your browser or download manager.

bash$ cd ~
bash$ wget http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/.../firefox-.tar.gz

Next, extract the contents with an archiving utility such as Ark or tar.

bash$ tar zxf firefox-.tar.gz

Now you must select the installation directory. If you are the only user, the extracted files could stay where they are, but If this is a multi-user system, the firefox directory must be moved to a publicly accessible location such as /usr/local or /opt.

bash$ su

bash# mv firefox /usr/local
bash# chown -R root:root /usr/local/firefox

The installation is more or less complete, but it's recommended that the firefox script be available somewhere in your path to avoid the inconvenience of having to enter the full path. This can be accomplished by creating a symbolic link in the relative 'bin' directory.

For the personal installation:

bash$ mkdir bin
bash$ cd bin
bash$ ln -s ../firefox/firefox .

Or the mult-user installation (as root):

bash# cd /usr/local/bin
bash# ln -s ../firefox/firefox .

Many Linux distributions already include /usr/local/bin and ~/bin in their global environment variable path, which can easily be verified by running 'firefox' from the shell or the desktop environment's (run) menu. If execution fails (command not found), you can adjust the path by appending "/usr/local/binBlushHOME/bin" to the existing PATH variable in /etc/profile and/or /etc/bashrc.

How can the above be easier that double clicking an executable then 4 or 5 clicks of your mouse.?
bmh1 15 572 1 United Kingdom
6 Mar 2007 7:13PM
The instructions might look easier if you hadn't included the Mac OS X instructions as well as the Linux ones.

The install could all be done with a few clicks of the mouse on most modern Linux installations (eg. RedHat), but as Linux has many more user interface options than Windows it can be easier to document the command line instructions (which can also be automated - which is why installing the same software on 100 Linux boxes is a lot easier/quicker than on 100 Windows boxes).

If you look on the Red Hat support site/forums you can probably find the point and click instructions you are looking for ...

Bernard
redsnappa 19 2.8k United Kingdom
6 Mar 2007 8:09PM

Quote:The instructions might look easier if you hadn't included the Mac OS X instructions as well

My apologies but how can you make this look easy


Quote:First, download the latest release to your home directory with your browser or download manager.

bash$ cd ~
bash$ wget ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/.../firefox-.tar.gz

Next, extract the contents with an archiving utility such as Ark or tar.

bash$ tar zxf firefox-.tar.gz

Now you must select the installation directory. If you are the only user, the extracted files could stay where they are, but If this is a multi-user system, the firefox directory must be moved to a publicly accessible location such as /usr/local or /opt.

bash$ su

bash# mv firefox /usr/local
bash# chown -R root:root /usr/local/firefox

The installation is more or less complete, but it's recommended that the firefox script be available somewhere in your path to avoid the inconvenience of having to enter the full path. This can be accomplished by creating a symbolic link in the relative 'bin' directory.

For the personal installation:

bash$ mkdir bin
bash$ cd bin
bash$ ln -s ../firefox/firefox .

Or the mult-user installation (as root):

bash# cd /usr/local/bin
bash# ln -s ../firefox/firefox .

Many Linux distributions already include /usr/local/bin and ~/bin in their global environment variable path, which can easily be verified by running 'firefox' from the shell or the desktop environment's (run) menu. If execution fails (command not found), you can adjust the path by appending "/usr/local/binBlushHOME/bin" to the existing PATH variable in /etc/profile and/or /etc/bashrc.

bmh1 15 572 1 United Kingdom
6 Mar 2007 10:39PM
As I said above, it should all be doable with the file manager GUI, the wget is an alternative to using a browser to download the software (if you want to install a browser on a machine which doesn't already have one).

The Red Hat forums are the place to search for information about installs on Red Hat ...

If this were a genuine problem I would try and dig you out some links, but as you just seem to be arguing for the sake of it, and you did nothing but complain about the advice I gave you in another thread, it would be pointless.

Bernard
User_Removed 17 3.3k Russian Federation
6 Mar 2007 11:18PM

Quote:My apologies but how can you make this look easy

Download the rpm (or similar) package.
Double click.
Install.
The End.

It's easy to become frustrated with something that's new to you. I currently feel the same way about Vista. However ignorance doesn't make being foolish any easier...
mrcal 17 1.0k
7 Mar 2007 6:38AM

Quote: Installing software on Linux does't seem to me to be any more difficult than windows (speaking as someone who has used both since either were invented.)


And the same has applied here to novice users. I teach IT skills at sixth-form level. We started looking at Linux distributions this term, focussing mainly on Mandriva. Several of my students have variously installed Mandriva, SUSE or Redhat to dual-boot alongside Windows and have then downloaded and installed various pieces of software. All this at home without any real support from me.
stolzy 15 3.8k 7
7 Mar 2007 7:39AM

Quote:How can the above be easier that double clicking an executable then 4 or 5 clicks of your mous

if you'd looked a bit further you would have found the instructions for, for example an rpm, which would install firefox with, as you say, just a few mouse clicks.

What you've done is the equivalent of installing software from the dos command line - and then included the entirely separate instructions for installing the same software on an Apple mac as well - hardly a reasonable comparison.
mdpontin 17 6.0k Scotland
7 Mar 2007 8:36AM

Quote:and then included the entirely separate instructions for installing the same software on an Apple mac as well


And not only that, but I've yet to hear of a Mac user installing from the command line. Normal practice on the Mac is:

1. Download the disk image (.dmg)
2. Double-click to mount/open
3. Drag Firefox app from the disk image to your Applications folder
4. Done

Doug
redsnappa 19 2.8k United Kingdom
9 Oct 2007 9:02PM
All of the above dues not answer the question of why our Linux server (Red hat) crashes more than our two windows 2003 servers

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