Building a new system from scratch

If you could, which system would be your choice for building a interchangeable lens camera system. Would you go M/4/3, APS-C mirror less, or APS-C. If smaller and lighter is you quest, bearing in mid some APS-C bodies have become smaller and lighter

If you could, which system would be your choice for building a interchangeable lens camera system. Would you go M/4/3, APS-C mirror less, or APS-C. If smaller and lighter is you quest, bearing in mid some APS-C bodies have become smaller and lighter

We're all different. The systems you've mentioned obviously work well. I first picked up a micro four thirds camera many years ago and would not go back to anything else. I know of someone who tried micro four thirds and couldn't get on with it and went back to the APS system. My choice will not be for everyone. Ken.

We're all different. The systems you've mentioned obviously work well. I first picked up a micro four thirds camera many years ago and would not go back to anything else. I know of someone who tried micro four thirds and couldn't get on with it and went back to the APS system. My choice will not be for everyone.

Ken.

I have gone the mirrorless full frame route which so far has worked well. Weight was the over-riding reason but... lenses are really no lighter so the weight reduction is less than I had hoped.

I have gone the mirrorless full frame route which so far has worked well. Weight was the over-riding reason but... lenses are really no lighter so the weight reduction is less than I had hoped.

I thought [link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI656MIUCsg]this [/link]was a very fair piece where the photographer explains why he chose what he chose and why you should and why you would be wise to choose differently. Excellent bit about brand loyalty too. It made me rethink my choices. I did think, "oh god, Sony fanboy" turns out he's not. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI656MIUCsg[/youtube] In answer to your question I think Fuji is hard to beat as an APS-C system, possibly Sony 6XXX series. Both lightweight. With the latter you could also add a full frame body later and share some stuff between them. Fuji is addressed in the video I posted, worth watching.

I thought this was a very fair piece where the photographer explains why he chose what he chose and why you should and why you would be wise to choose differently. Excellent bit about brand loyalty too. It made me rethink my choices. I did think, "oh god, Sony fanboy" turns out he's not.




In answer to your question I think Fuji is hard to beat as an APS-C system, possibly Sony 6XXX series. Both lightweight. With the latter you could also add a full frame body later and share some stuff between them.

Fuji is addressed in the video I posted, worth watching.

Thanks for that link Chris. I've not heard of this guy before but he does great chiaroscuro street work. I'll look him up some more. I don't think I'll be swapping my Panasonics as I find them so easy to use. I have sold much of my Canon stuff, but am hanging on to one body and a couple of lenses that I particularly like, just because.

Thanks for that link Chris. I've not heard of this guy before but he does great chiaroscuro street work. I'll look him up some more.
I don't think I'll be swapping my Panasonics as I find them so easy to use. I have sold much of my Canon stuff, but am hanging on to one body and a couple of lenses that I particularly like, just because.

I would go full frame mirror-less Currently being a Sony user I would stick with them....... A7RIV or A9 ( perhaps version II coming soon ) if sport / action / wildlife is your main genre.

I would go full frame mirror-less

Currently being a Sony user I would stick with them....... A7RIV or A9 ( perhaps version II coming soon ) if sport / action / wildlife is your main genre.

My answer would be 'whatever suits me today'. Emphasis on 'today'. Do you notice something about your choices? They are all developmental. Meaning they all grew out of film photography's full frame 35mm standard. There may be many other 'systems' coming as technology advances. So, rather than think your choice will be your first, last, and for ever more maybe you should realize that you may be switching horses many times in the future. So, my advice is to picture whatever suits you today. But, don't buy every lens and body for that system. Be ready to switch when the day comes.

My answer would be 'whatever suits me today'. Emphasis on 'today'. Do you notice something about your choices? They are all developmental. Meaning they all grew out of film photography's full frame 35mm standard. There may be many other 'systems' coming as technology advances. So, rather than think your choice will be your first, last, and for ever more maybe you should realize that you may be switching horses many times in the future. So, my advice is to picture whatever suits you today. But, don't buy every lens and body for that system. Be ready to switch when the day comes.

Some interesting answers, as Franken said, we are all different, I went through a Sony A mount period ( A-57 & A-37 ) loved the cameras and so easy to set up and use and the Minolta/Konica used lens market was great, but there was no user facility to adjust noise filters and they needed that facility. I was never that keen on the over blown colours that Sony seem to exhibit. I moved over to a second hand Canon 650D with kit lens and a 28-135 FF lens that works a treat on a cropped sensor. Love the colours. I have also a 10 year old Olympus OMD-EM-10 Mk 1, hardly use it, I have a love hate relation ship with it, program/menu navigation is OK once you are used to it, but it still remains rather convoluted with hidden sub files. After much thought, I might go for the latest Canon M series cameras.and keep my 650D as a keeps sake,

Some interesting answers, as Franken said, we are all different, I went through a Sony A mount period ( A-57 & A-37 ) loved the cameras and so easy to set up and use and the Minolta/Konica used lens market was great, but there was no user facility to adjust noise filters and they needed that facility. I was never that keen on the over blown colours that Sony seem to exhibit. I moved over to a second hand Canon 650D with kit lens and a 28-135 FF lens that works a treat on a cropped sensor. Love the colours. I have also a 10 year old Olympus OMD-EM-10 Mk 1, hardly use it, I have a love hate relation ship with it, program/menu navigation is OK once you are used to it, but it still remains rather convoluted with hidden sub files. After much thought, I might go for the latest Canon M series cameras.and keep my 650D as a keeps sake,

Maybe I should make my advice a bit clearer. With so much going on among the camera manufacturers such as the introduction of mirrorless full frame cameras, the recently reported decline in income of 55% this quarter by Canon's camera division, the rumored discontinuance of the D500 and D3000 lines of camera by Nikon, the rise of the smartphone camera which not only killed the consumer level point and shoot camera market but is also trimming the number of professional wedding photographers since many newlyweds now prefer to shoot their own events with the smartphone, etc, it is very hard to get a grip on what will last and what will fall to the wayside in terms of camera systems. While, yes, the Sony A mount through the a7 line seems a strong system now, you must remember that at its inception Sony discontinued its entire NEX mount line of cameras. That left a lot of customers of Sony very unhappy. So, even as strong a camera as Sony's A mount may seem at the moment its future is not as certain as it may appear. Thus I would not be willing to commit myself to any 'system' right at this time. Buy a camera you like. Maybe a used one. A few lenses. Don't throw a lot of money at anything for the moment. Because remember as good as the Samsung NX DSLR was it was suddenly scuttled by its manufacture, and all those who committed to it are now left high and dry. Good shooting.

Maybe I should make my advice a bit clearer. With so much going on among the camera manufacturers such as the introduction of mirrorless full frame cameras, the recently reported decline in income of 55% this quarter by Canon's camera division, the rumored discontinuance of the D500 and D3000 lines of camera by Nikon, the rise of the smartphone camera which not only killed the consumer level point and shoot camera market but is also trimming the number of professional wedding photographers since many newlyweds now prefer to shoot their own events with the smartphone, etc, it is very hard to get a grip on what will last and what will fall to the wayside in terms of camera systems. While, yes, the Sony A mount through the a7 line seems a strong system now, you must remember that at its inception Sony discontinued its entire NEX mount line of cameras. That left a lot of customers of Sony very unhappy. So, even as strong a camera as Sony's A mount may seem at the moment its future is not as certain as it may appear. Thus I would not be willing to commit myself to any 'system' right at this time. Buy a camera you like. Maybe a used one. A few lenses. Don't throw a lot of money at anything for the moment. Because remember as good as the Samsung NX DSLR was it was suddenly scuttled by its manufacture, and all those who committed to it are now left high and dry. Good shooting.

In one sense your question is hypothetical as you have not mentioned a budget, or the lens angles of view you are likely to use. When smaller and lighter is the first aim, lenses for crop sensor Fuji, Nikon DX and Olympus 4:3 "crop sensors" are "lighter because they have more reach" - as in a 300mm for 24x36 having an angle of view of 450mm (FX equivalent) on Nikon DX or Fuji - and near 600mm on Olympus 4:3. You might need an extra wide angle - these are smaller and lighter than long telephotos. I have shortlisted brands that have a wider lens range and a good crop sensor or 4:3 body. I appreciate the Nikon D500 is not ML. It is likely Sony will take another 2 years to complete their ML lens range - and Nikon and Canon 5 years or more. As has been mentioned there is no great weight saving with 24x36 lenses for ML. As to the Nikon rumour mill the word (from Greys of Westminster) is the D7200 and D810 will soon be discontinued. The D500 continues to sell well. New pro grade Nikon and Canon ML bodies are expected later this year - in time for the 2020 Olympics. With several players in the 4:3 arena taken well below 20% of the camera market, some 4:3 brands might exit the camera market maybe 2-3 years from now. in 2021, after the Olympics, the market may have changed a lot with maybe even the L mount being a success.

In one sense your question is hypothetical as you have not mentioned a budget, or the lens angles of view you are likely to use.

When smaller and lighter is the first aim, lenses for crop sensor Fuji, Nikon DX and
Olympus 4:3 "crop sensors" are "lighter because they have more reach" - as in a 300mm for 24x36 having an angle of view of 450mm (FX equivalent) on Nikon DX or Fuji - and near 600mm on Olympus 4:3.
You might need an extra wide angle - these are smaller and lighter than long telephotos.

I have shortlisted brands that have a wider lens range and a good crop sensor or 4:3 body.
I appreciate the Nikon D500 is not ML.

It is likely Sony will take another 2 years to complete their ML lens range - and Nikon and Canon 5 years or more.
As has been mentioned there is no great weight saving with 24x36 lenses for ML.

As to the Nikon rumour mill the word (from Greys of Westminster) is the D7200 and D810 will soon be discontinued. The D500 continues to sell well.

New pro grade Nikon and Canon ML bodies are expected later this year - in time for the 2020 Olympics.

With several players in the 4:3 arena taken well below 20% of the camera market, some 4:3 brands might exit the camera market maybe 2-3 years from now.

in 2021, after the Olympics, the market may have changed a lot with maybe even the L mount being a success.

There ised to be a school of thought that you'd be better choosing the lens system first, since you'll be keeping them when you upgrade to a new body later. YMMV.

There ised to be a school of thought that you'd be better choosing the lens system first, since you'll be keeping them when you upgrade to a new body later. YMMV.

[quote]There used to be a school of thought that you'd be better choosing the lens system first, since you'll be keeping them when you upgrade to a new body later. [/quote] IMO the breadth of the system is, as you imply, important - especially for anybody with specific needs such as f1.4 lens, long tele lenses and macro lens.

Quote:There used to be a school of thought that you'd be better choosing the lens system first, since you'll be keeping them when you upgrade to a new body later.

IMO the breadth of the system is, as you imply, important - especially for anybody with specific needs such as f1.4 lens, long tele lenses and macro lens.

[quote]IMO the breadth of the system is, as you imply, important[/quote] Certainly a consideration but with manufacturers like Sigma / Tamron / Zeiss producing lenses with different camera mounts and adaptors to allow say Canon lenses to be used on Sony bodies I am not so sure " breadth of the system " is an issue.... at least for the hobbyist / amateur like me.

Quote:IMO the breadth of the system is, as you imply, important

Certainly a consideration but with manufacturers like Sigma / Tamron / Zeiss producing lenses with different camera mounts and adaptors to allow say Canon lenses to be used on Sony bodies I am not so sure " breadth of the system " is an issue.... at least for the hobbyist / amateur like me.

[quote][quote]IMO the breadth of the system is, as you imply, important[/quote] Certainly a consideration but with manufacturers like Sigma / Tamron / Zeiss producing lenses with different camera mounts and adaptors to allow say Canon lenses to be used on Sony bodies I am not so sure " breadth of the system " is an issue.... at least for the hobbyist / amateur like me.[/quote] This idea, buying adapters which allows you to apply a variety of lens mounts to a specific camera mount, sounds like a good idea, but understand it has limitations. Most importantly, lenses adapted to a different mount with an adapter are unable to take advantage of electronic communication with the camera. Thus all you have is a manual focus lens. Now, if such a lens and its inherent limitations suits you, then the idea is fine. True there are some manufacturers make adapters that allow the adapted lens to 'speak' electronically to some extent with the body. But, such is not a perfect communication and are very expensive. So, while you may adapt many lenses to say the Sony a7 it may not be as 'freeing' as it may seem. As for which is best to buy: a better body and cheaper lenses or a cheaper body and expensive lenses, my paragraph above muddies the water a great deal. If you go for expensive lenses and switch systems in bodies then you may have to live with manual focus only. And, only you can decide whether you can live with that. So, the argument noted in this paragraph's first sentence is one you and you alone can decide for your case. There is no perfect answer. And, don't be convinced there is. There is a lot of work you must do in terms of soul searching and decision making that no one but you can do for you. Good luck.

Quote:
Quote:IMO the breadth of the system is, as you imply, important

Certainly a consideration but with manufacturers like Sigma / Tamron / Zeiss producing lenses with different camera mounts and adaptors to allow say Canon lenses to be used on Sony bodies I am not so sure " breadth of the system " is an issue.... at least for the hobbyist / amateur like me.


This idea, buying adapters which allows you to apply a variety of lens mounts to a specific camera mount, sounds like a good idea, but understand it has limitations. Most importantly, lenses adapted to a different mount with an adapter are unable to take advantage of electronic communication with the camera. Thus all you have is a manual focus lens. Now, if such a lens and its inherent limitations suits you, then the idea is fine. True there are some manufacturers make adapters that allow the adapted lens to 'speak' electronically to some extent with the body. But, such is not a perfect communication and are very expensive. So, while you may adapt many lenses to say the Sony a7 it may not be as 'freeing' as it may seem.

As for which is best to buy: a better body and cheaper lenses or a cheaper body and expensive lenses, my paragraph above muddies the water a great deal. If you go for expensive lenses and switch systems in bodies then you may have to live with manual focus only. And, only you can decide whether you can live with that. So, the argument noted in this paragraph's first sentence is one you and you alone can decide for your case. There is no perfect answer. And, don't be convinced there is. There is a lot of work you must do in terms of soul searching and decision making that no one but you can do for you. Good luck.

[quote]. Most importantly, lenses adapted to a different mount with an adapter are unable to take advantage of electronic communication with the camera. Thus all you have is a manual focus lens[/quote]That's simply not true. It is trivially easy to adapt certain systems. Some Canon lenses focus faster on Sony bodies with the likes of an MC-11 adaptor, there's full electronic communication. A friend uses his Canon 100mm f/2.8 USM macro on his Sony bodies with a $39 Commlite adaptor and it works as if it was on a Canon body with full comms and autofocus

Quote:. Most importantly, lenses adapted to a different mount with an adapter are unable to take advantage of electronic communication with the camera. Thus all you have is a manual focus lens
That's simply not true. It is trivially easy to adapt certain systems. Some Canon lenses focus faster on Sony bodies with the likes of an MC-11 adaptor, there's full electronic communication.

A friend uses his Canon 100mm f/2.8 USM macro on his Sony bodies with a $39 Commlite adaptor and it works as if it was on a Canon body with full comms and autofocus