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Camera calibration in Lightroom3


SGIBBONS 11 56 1 United Kingdom
17 Sep 2010 8:55AM
Hi

Please could some one help shed some light on how lightroom 3 uses the camera calibration. Im using a canon 5d mk2 and in the metadata (library module) LR recognises the correct lens and camera im using, but when i go in to the develop module and in the calibration of the lens for instance it recognises the lens but gives the profile as a canon 1d Mk3. Please could some one tell me where does LR get this camera default from and why doesnt it recognise the 5d Mkii ?

Also Ive read that having the correct camera profile/calibration helps with developing the raw file in LR is this the case ? As i have noticed that my latest image looks dull, lifeless and the colours seem to be off kilter to be honest and am wondering if this has something to do with the camera profile not being recognised in LR may be ?

Thanks so much for any help as im going nuts trying to understand what is right/wrong or what i should or shouldnt do in LR :-(.

Sam Smile

PS. I have just downloaded the latest camera raw from adobe for LR3 and CS4 and its made no diffrence.
cameracat 16 8.6k 61 Norfolk Island
17 Sep 2010 10:36AM

Quote:I have just downloaded the latest camera raw from adobe for LR3


First thing to understand about Lightroom 3 is that you do not download a Camera Raw update for it.....Smile

You do however download a Camera Raw update for Photoshop CS4, I believe the last version released for PS/CS4 was Version 5.7.

Lightroom 3 on the other hand uses Adobe Camera Raw 6 and onwards....! ( Versions 6 and onwards are not compatible with PS/CS4, You need PS/CS5 for that )

When Adobe reconfigure the Camera Raw in Lightroom, They release a whole new version upgrade to the program, So in order to have access to the latest Camera Raw within Lightroom, You need to download the Lightroom 3, Version 3.2 update........ Here is a link ....Grin

OK, So lets assume you have the latest LR3 V3.2 installed, You may now find that a they have fixed that little Camera recognition error, That you mentioned......Smile Smile Smile

Back on the Camera " Calibration " thing, By default LR3 applies the Adobe Standard ACR, You need to go to the " Calibration " section bottom of the right hand option and choose the one you want, They are camera brand specific, For example you should see Canons " Camera Faithfull " option and others available to you.

Choose the one you like the look of best, But at the end of the day thats just a start point in the adjustment curve, You can custom tweak that until it looks how you want.

Basically you do that to one image from a particular shoot ( assuming all the images have a similar lighting ) Then back in the " Library " mode you can choose the " Sync " option to apply that to all similarly exposed images, Either by selecting all or by selective selecting ..........If that makes sense.

Oh! Don't be going nuts.....Grin There is no wrong or right way to be honest, Its all about producing a reasonable start point, Before making further custom adjustments.

You'll soon fathom it out.....Wink
SGIBBONS 11 56 1 United Kingdom
17 Sep 2010 11:04AM
Hi Vince

Thanks alot for your reply !

Apologies i wasnt clear in the orignal forum post about the down loads ive done from Adobe. Firstly i have down loaded the Camera Raw for CS4 and the other update for LR3 which was v3.2 but for instance in the Develop module in the lens distortion panel im still seeing Canon 1D MKIII and not the 5DMKII that the image was shot on. Shouldnt i be seeing the 5DMKII now ? And will this have an affect on the camera calibration panel with the start settings of Camera Faithful, Landscape etc not being for the 5DMKII but being for the 1DMKIII ? Sorry i cant put screen shots of what i mean here as im in work at the mo :-(.

Thanks again !

Sam
sherlob Plus
14 3.1k 129 United Kingdom
17 Sep 2010 11:20AM

Quote:As i have noticed that my latest image looks dull, lifeless and the colours seem to be off kilter


Another thought, but have you ensured your working in the correct colour space?
SGIBBONS 11 56 1 United Kingdom
17 Sep 2010 11:52AM
Please could you tell me where can i check that ? The original rawfile was shot in Adobe RGB (1998).

Thankyou
mlewis 16 1.5k United Kingdom
17 Sep 2010 12:33PM

Quote:still seeing Canon 1D MKIII and not the 5DMKII that the image was shot on.

It doesn't matter. All you need is a camera with the correct sensor size - full frame, APS-C, etc. This is what Adobe say. The correct camera is being picked automatically here.
sherlob Plus
14 3.1k 129 United Kingdom
17 Sep 2010 12:57PM
Colour spaces are a bit a mystery to me - they seem to be like the dark arts. I don't pretend to understand them, but I have heard that adobeRGB is synominous with the problems you report (there has to be a work around as I'm pretty sure this is the preferred space for publishers). Still have you tried shooting in sRGB and then comparing the result? This will at least help confirm wether the problem relates to camera calibration or colour space. I'm sure the techy gurus on here will be able to shed more light... anyone?
cameracat 16 8.6k 61 Norfolk Island
17 Sep 2010 12:58PM
Hi Sam, Sorry for the delay, Had to pop out and assist with some horse photography......Grin Don't ask.....But I had the smelly end to deal with....Sad

Ok ! Glad we got the update thing sorted, Needed to know we where on the same chanel.....LOL...!

Can't for the life of me understand why LR3 is showing you 5D MkII as a 1D MkIII.....Thats really odd, And probably a question only Adobe can explain, Because in theory LR reads the Metadata from the RAW files, Here it should have a clue as to what camera/lens and all shooting data where used.

My other half uses a 5D MkII, But she's into Capture One 5 ( by Phase One ) But I will ask her to check what LR3 makes of her images and lens types. ( when I get a mo )

Meantime Adams suggestion would be a good area to check out.....!!!

As far as I know LR3 uses the colour space " ProPhoto RGB " allowing you to change that when you export to file, Or export to external editing software ( ie PS/CS4 ).

There is no direct way to change the colour space, I say direct because you can change the colour space that is used when exporting ( in preferences ) BUT I'm not sure how that impacts on the colour space that LR3 uses whilst you work within the LR3 interface....!!!!!

That said its a very good point, And one I will endeavor to look into, Just for clarity if nothing else.

The ProPhoto RGB space is apparently bigger than even the Adobe RGB space.......!

Ah! News from the Canon department......Sad Seems the other halfs Canon 5D MkII is also been seen as a 1D MkIII on her install of LR3.....Sad

So it seems your not alone.....It also implies that " Adobe " are responsible for this, Just for the record LR3 seems to be getting it right regarding my Nikon generated raw data.

You would be right to be concerned about the appearance of the images, If the LR3 data is all screwed up and thinks its looking at another camera, How on earth can you trust what its showing you, Let alone anything else.....Sad Sad Sad

SO come on ADOBE, Get your act together and sort this mess out, Its bad enough that you released Photoshop CS5 with so many bugs, That it single handedly crashed almost every Apple Mac computer, Then tried turn Windows computers upside down.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its just not good enough with softwares that are so critical to peoples workflows, Let alone the prices you charge for so.....Not doing....Sad

Its a shame when you can't rely on your software, What hope is there.....Grin

LR3 is a good program, But will be a great program once they get it sorted.....Smile

Meanwhile Sam, Trust to your Canon DPP software for the critical stuff, Complain bitterly to Adobe about the little bugs you have found, I will do like wise, Then maybe with any luck they will get it sorted A S A P.......It seems pointless trying to get the colour thing looked at, Until Adobe have got the camera issue fixed.

I have a copy of Phase Ones, Capture One 5, That I am loading on another computer as I type, Looks like I will be using that until LR3 is completely " Debugged " .....!!!!

Wink

EDIT:
Quote: camera with the correct sensor size - full frame, APS-C, etc


I'm no Canon buff, But I do know that the 5D MkII is full frame, The 1D MkIII though, I thought was APC-H ( slightly larger than APC, But smaller than Full frame )

I may be wrong of course, Me is only a simple Nikon shooter after all.....Smile
SGIBBONS 11 56 1 United Kingdom
17 Sep 2010 6:32PM
Thanks all for your responses and suggestions !

Thanks very much Vince again for checking some things out for me !

I am in some way relived to read that your other halfs LR3 is also seeing 1D MKIII which confirms its a LR thing and not me having a blond moment Smile . Its very frustrating when your trying to learn the fundamentals of RAW processing and to make things harder LR thinks your using a different camera :-(.
I have had a play around with the default Camera Calibration settings again and think ill go with camera neutral to start. I have also checked the colour space in the LR and its the default you mentioned Photo PRO RGB. I will also try to edit a picture in the Canon DPP you suggest and see what results i get as a comparison. And will definitely be dropping Adobe an email to ask there advice etc.

I wont ask what you what photography you were doing near the smelly end of a Horse Grin. Will you be uploading them ? Grin

Sam x
GlennH 15 1.9k 1 France
17 Sep 2010 8:03PM
The default ouput in Lightroom is ProPhoto RGB, although the histogram it shows is known as 'Melissa RGB' - gamma 1.0 encoded (corresponding with RAW files) ProPhoto RGB with an sRGB tone curve for ease of editing. Regardless of the output colour space you select, Lightroom always shows the same histogram, so when you re-open the file in Photoshop in a smaller colour space it can sometimes be clipped.
mlewis 16 1.5k United Kingdom
17 Sep 2010 8:19PM

Quote:I'm no Canon buff, But I do know that the 5D MkII is full frame, The 1D MkIII though, I thought was APC-H ( slightly larger than APC, But smaller than Full frame )

I may be wrong of course, Me is only a simple Nikon shooter after all.....Smile



A 1D mkIII is APS-H but Lightroom actually reports the camera as a 1Ds mkIII which is full frame. I have a 5D mkII so I see the same thing from PS CS5/ACR. The reason is that Adobe aren't going to test every lens with every camera as it would be far too much work. They made their lens correction profiles dependant on sensor size instead. so as long as the reported camera has the same size sensor as your camera you are good to go. Also, Adobe have said that you can use profiles for full frame cameras with images from APS-C cameras without any major problems if needs be.

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