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Colour Space When Editing And Downloading to EPZ

15 Nov 2018 10:58AM
I know colour space and management is complicated but what colour space should you use when editing in PS , I've been editing in sRGB and downloading images to EPZ in that colour space. I have just changed the colour space to Adobe RGB when editing and the colours are better and brighter. Should I be downloading in Adobe RGB or sRGB, and will it make any difference, Also if downloading for on-line printing what colour space should you use? Will this depend on the company you use? I'd be grateful for advice/opinions. Do the images below differ much.54721_1542279466.jpg

Thanks for any help

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daniel66 4 61 United Kingdom
15 Nov 2018 11:11AM
Most people will recommend sRGB, but really in modern browsers Adobe RGB is not all that risky. You have to be a bit careful that the platform you're uploading to supports it - I've seen problems in some versions of WordPress, for instance.

As well, the benefits you see on your monitor won't be appreciated by everyone - that's a local perk that is dependent on the gamut of the screen. However, a lot of monitors that are described as "standard gamut" can display quite strong colours outside of sRGB. Most laptops can't.

Above all else, be sure to embed the Adobe RGB profile if you decide to use that colour space, and be aware that it's still not quite as universal as sRGB. Browsers still fluctuate a little in their support for proper colour management.
daniel66 4 61 United Kingdom
15 Nov 2018 11:12AM
Online printing = sRGB in the vast majority of cases. Don't use Adobe RGB for that. Smile
JJGEE 15 7.8k 18 England
15 Nov 2018 11:27AM
With reference to the two images.

The brown fallen leaves on the grass & the house bricks appear slightly more towards red on the top image but I probably would not think that if looked at individually.

And some on-line printing services have their own profiles for different papers that you can download and use for soft proofing but generally sRGB is the one to use.
daniel66 4 61 United Kingdom
15 Nov 2018 11:40AM
Neither of the photos you've uploaded have a profile embedded, which makes it likely that the Adobe RGB version will appear duller on most screens (hence the reason for embedding the profile).

The other thing I'd caution against (just in case) is using "Assign Profile" in Photoshop to convert between profiles. That causes a huge colour shift by altering the meaning of the RGB values. In that case, switching between sRGB and Adobe RGB has an exaggerated effect, albeit one you might prefer in some instances.
saltireblue Plus
10 10.6k 61 Norway
15 Nov 2018 11:44AM
I asked this question a couple of years ago, and the consensus was that it is best to process in RGB and only convert to sRGB for uploading images to the web in jpeg format.
Among other points made was that images uploaded to the nett in RGB 'suffer' from flatter and duller colours.
banehawi Plus
16 2.2k 4124 Canada
15 Nov 2018 1:03PM
sRGB is the WEB format. It makes zero difference what space you edit in, as long as you convert to sRGB for uploading to the web. If you dont, as the EPZ team warn, the image on EPZ may not look quite as you intended.

For viewing web images, there is only one browser that fully supports colour management, - so what you use to view is also important. The browser is Firefox, with Colour Management enabled.

Adobe RGB, ProPhoto RGB are excellent for a workflow that ends up being printed.

The upper image looks brighter and more saturated than the bottom, though both images, when downloaded are not carrying a colour profile, they are untagged.
Chris_L 6 5.5k United Kingdom
15 Nov 2018 1:38PM
If your photography often features the myriad colours and shades of nature it is really worthwhile getting your head around this. Maybe consider treating yourself to something like this.

The mixing bowl and cake analogy is worth noting. Adjusting colour balance and brightness levels are akin to blending ingredients.

Mix your ingredients in a large, wide bowl. (Use a colour space that is 16 bit deep, and that is a wide space like AdobeRGB or ProPhoto RGB).

When things are cloned, overlaid or dodged and burned, or white balance and hues are tweaked you are using as much colour information as possible during the processing.

Your monitor may not be able to display that colourspace with 100% accuracy, you may see some banding on screen but it's possible that your inkjet printer can produce the tones smoothly. Monitors (and even TVs) are improving their colour space abilities all the time.

After all of the processing if you want a copy to upload to the web your best bet is to output an 8-bit jpeg and you can go one of two ways.

1) You can convert to sRGB but this will narrow the colour space, doing it as the last step is still better than starting off with a "small mixing bowl"

2) You can leave the colour space alone and if the resulting file is tagged with the colour space (imagine a label that says "this jpeg is in Adobe RGB colour space") then in theory computers displaying that jpeg will do so properly, people with wide gamut monitors will see your colours properly.

Sadly though the colour space tag sometimes gets stripped from files as it moves around the web.

When the tag is missing the default behaviour of software is to assume that it's a sRGB file. When an aRGB is read as a sRGB you get a colour shift.

My advice is to always process in the widest and deepest space then finally converting to 8-bit sRGB when producing jpegs for web use.

Philh04 Plus
14 2.1k United Kingdom
15 Nov 2018 1:53PM

Quote:For viewing web images, there is only one browser that fully supports colour management, - so what you use to view is also important. The browser is Firefox, with Colour Management enabled.

That is not true any more with most browsers now supporting colour management...

It makes sense to edit in the widest colour space possible, in fact lightroom uses a linear form of the ProPhotoRGB space (as do most other Raw workflow solutions).

To all intents and purposes it isn't that important now to upload an image in sRGB, but just in case someone may be viewing on a non managed device it makes sense to convert and as Daniel says to make sure that the profile is embedded.

For sending to printers they will normally tell you which colour space to embed, which in a lot of cases will be sRGB, whilst many will supply a profile for soft proofing it is important that you still keep the image in the sRGB colour space.
daniel66 4 61 United Kingdom
15 Nov 2018 3:12PM
Last time I looked at colour in Chrome it seemed to be misbehaving (in fact it seemed akin to Internet Explorer in behaviour, which is a step backwards).

In my browser, the photo at the top is more colourful. Ordinarily, that'd mean the bottom image is in Adobe RGB because it'd suffer more without the profile on a standard-gamut screen. However, that might not be the case depending on the journey the files have taken.

15 Nov 2018 4:22PM
Many thanks for all that advise. I will now try and put it into practise. The top shot I downloaded was changed in PS to Adobe RGB and the bottom the original I edited in sRGB., so I'll edit in Adobe RGB and try to embed the profile. We never stop learning, Thank you EPZ people.
daniel66 4 61 United Kingdom
16 Nov 2018 10:59AM
You wouldn't usually get this colour boost between an sRGB - Adobe RGB colour conversion, so I'm guessing that "Assign Profile" was used. If you edit in Adobe RGB, you won't see this increased colour, but it's a better way of doing things. Of course, you can always boost saturation by other means (e.g. a "vibrance" adjustment).
Chris_L 6 5.5k United Kingdom
16 Nov 2018 12:11PM
I don't think assign profile was used. Yes if you get an aRGB image that doesn't have a profile and you assign the correct profile to it then it will look better. The two images above are typical of what you see when you have a sRGB image and an aRGB image neither of which have embedded profiles.

daniel66 4 61 United Kingdom
16 Nov 2018 12:34PM

Quote:The two images above are typical of what you see when you have a sRGB image and an aRGB image neither of which have embedded profiles.

They would be if the bottom one was Adobe RGB, but assigning what are essentially the "wrong" ARGB values to an sRGB image will boost saturation, hence the Adobe RGB photo ends up looking more colourful.
Chris_L 6 5.5k United Kingdom
16 Nov 2018 1:15PM
Yes, neither image is carrying a profile, I think you are right in what you say that the OP took a sRGB image and assigned it an aRGB profile, instead of converting it to the wider space. I see my mistake in assuming the duller one was an aRGB without the correct profile embedded.

I've just edited an image (a composite) in a wide colour space (ProPhotoRGB in this case) and I'm going to upload four versions of it. Originals shared here if anyone wants a nose.

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