Critique: what's the point? Who really wants it?

jack33 11 53 England
5 Apr 2009 7:49PM
I know that the title sounds aggressive and its not my intension to offend anyone,but, whats the point in posting if everyone just posts the comment "wonderfull shot, great detail," blah, blah. I understand that if I were to post an image and that someone replies "great shot wonderfull detail" i would understandably want to post back on their image much the same.

The thing is, do we learn from it? I am just a newcommer to wildlife photography and know my shots are not good, i would rather people tell me why they are not good than just say "greatshot" just because i have said the same about theirs. Honest critique is how we learn and move forward. Dont get me wrong i am guilty of the same thing, but when i have mentioned things that i find wrong with an image (in my opinion only) there is seldom a response.

It would appear that, if i click on 50 photo's i should get a good response on mine.
If i'm honest i have seen photos on here that for me, are out of focus or over exposed and yet get so many votes all with the comment "wonderfull shot,great detail ,superb". Is this really helping? I dont think so. In my opinion if someone doesn't want honest critique then they shouldn't post. Does this sound like someone who's upset coz they dont get a lot of votes? Or maybe someone who just wants honest critique or good advice ? Let me know what you think!

P.s dont misunderstand me, ephotozine is great site and the standard is high, this is just a personal opinion.

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KarenFB Plus
13 5.3k 174 England
5 Apr 2009 7:55PM
I was going to say Hi Jack, but that sounds like I'm taking the mickey (apart from which I see your name is John!)!!

If you do a search you'll find this subject comes up again and again - usually the arguments get more and more heated! Needless to say, if you truly want a nitty gritty critique then click the 'Critique Wanted' box when you upload an image (if you do this no one can actually vote on that image). Non e2 members can get one a week whilst e2 members can get one a day. Even then you may get 'nice shot' comments - sometimes that's all there is to say.
ade_mcfade 15 15.2k 216 England
5 Apr 2009 8:14PM
have you got the title right on this thread?

you say "who wants it?" as if no one one the site wants it, then go on to complain that no one gives it Wink

anyway - if you really want people to be honest, ask for it in the ABOUT and don't put pointless, bland "nice pic" comments on other people's shots.

the reason you get comments can often be down to people returning the favour - and if you may be reaping what you sew?
jack33 11 53 England
5 Apr 2009 8:24PM
Hi Karen thx for the responce, I dont think i'm aking for nitty gritty comments, i just want honest ones. the thing is, if you post in the critique section you still get critique from everyone (that is fine by me). All i think im trying to say is that, there are images posted, normally from beginners (i consider myself to be a beginner too) that need advice and direction, but only get "wow great shot". Of course there are shots that fully deserve that comment .

Its just that to me, sometimes its more of a compliment swapping excersize than honest critisism. Can i ask how many images that you have seen that you know are out of focus or over exposed but no one has mentioned it. Dont misunderstand me we should always give positive comments along side any faults i think to encourage.

Photography is very subjective and personal but there are boundries that should be recognised.

Regards Jack.
jack33 11 53 England
5 Apr 2009 8:31PM
Hi ade mcfade, firstly ,the reason i put "who wants it" is because when i given it, theres been no response or acknowedgement of it.

Your last sentence just confirms what i have already said, that people are just swapping compliments and not being objective.
Alan_Warriner 14 545 England
5 Apr 2009 8:34PM

Quote:and know my shots are not good, i would rather people tell me why they are not good

If you know they're not good why do you need someone else to tell you why?
jack33 11 53 England
5 Apr 2009 8:39PM
Thx Alan, because they may be more experienced than me and willing to share their knowledge, which i thought was part of the reason for websites like this. It would seem that so far people are not reading my post as they are getting offended.
ade_mcfade 15 15.2k 216 England
5 Apr 2009 8:47PM
the thing is, you've got an awful lot of beginners who are in the same boat as you, and they've probably not got the knowledge/experience/confidence/whatever to really offer advice.... yet...

So rather than risk looking daft, people just lavish praise.

It's a form of networking
_ 14 535 4 Virgin Islands, British
5 Apr 2009 8:50PM
Then you get the grumpy buggers like me who say what they see and sometimes get flak for it by way of PMs from upset luvvies who should know better.

EPZ has enough knowledgeable users to make it a very usefull community, it also has it's little click cliques but for anyone really wanting to learn something it is a good place on the whole
jack33 11 53 England
5 Apr 2009 9:03PM
Thx ade-mcfade, if you read my post you'll know its not my intention to offend, i understand what your saying, but honest gentle critique will push people forward. When someone points out something wrong with my image it makes me take another look at it. This can only be a good thing, maybe(and this is just a"maybe")the vote system isnt a good thing. I viewed an image yesterday where a person was quite upset that no one had voted or commented on what was quite a nice image.

I think its just a shame that a blurred image thats overexposed will get more votes than another image that has been well taken. Because this makes it feel like a competition.
jack33 11 53 England
5 Apr 2009 9:06PM
Thx John_mctavish, i would rather someone like you post on my images. At least it would be honest critique!

ade_mcfade 15 15.2k 216 England
5 Apr 2009 9:07PM
and if you read my post you see that I never implied that you were offending Wink
hellsbells8868 11 151 2 Wales
5 Apr 2009 9:08PM
I haven't been taking photos for long so i can only say fab shot etc as i havent got the technical no how to say anything else, but i still want to comment and so i do....if you do comment and give critique on a piece, if it has been mine and i consider it helpful i would either mark as helpful or mention it in the comments.

if i wanted serious critique i would upload into the critique section, then they cant vote, only comment.

I don't think anyone would ever say to anyone that an image isn't good as if they have uploaded it, to me they must think it is good, or it must have some emotional content to them i have uploaded images that are right off the mark but at the time i was pleased with them, and i appreciate every comment i get it has spurred me on to try and be better....

Saying that, i do know that some of my images get more votes than say an outstanding piece 100 times better than mine, that doesnt even get an RC, but then i spend alot of time on here not just click for clicking but i have the time to go looking at pf's and galleries...

I welcome comments good and bad, i wont learn any other way..
uggyy 14 2.1k 9 Scotland
5 Apr 2009 9:11PM
This is one of them topics where it should say...

Put gas on, lite and stand well back Wink

As been said there a lot of sides to this site but the click system isnt going to generate you much real crit, put it up for crit and you stand a better chance of honest crit.

I dont crit pics often as to be honest, I seem to piss peeps off when I do Smile So I just leave it to times when Im asked to do it honestly or asked to a camera club to crit/mark and even then you got to be gentle. People (and I include myself) are very touchy about shots, even when we know the persons right lol...

EmzLou1980 10 279 Scotland
5 Apr 2009 9:13PM
I'm guilty of "nice shot" comments, but I mean it, I'm not experience enough to give critques or notice them, unless obvious, and if I notice them I've not got a clue how to advise an improovement or a "for next time try...." I encourage any advice given to me though, I do return comments, but on ones I like, shots that have caught my eye, I always try to give reasons, but sometimes a shots just caught my eye and thats it.
And personally encouragement is good when its warranted.
Jack/John, I had a look at your profile, and to me you have a stunning collection of shots, I particularily like your swan, I seen no fault, guess thats in experience or complete niavity, I dont think theres such thing as perfection, everyone can find fault with their own work and others!
With my lack of experience, I comment on shots that jump out at me because I like them, I often feel that its not quite what they are looking for in a comment but its all I can offer, whats the point in saying thats over exposed, or thats too dark, when I've no idea how it can be fixed.....
well theres my thoughts
I do try very hard to be 100% honest :s
kind regards Emz

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