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Did most intelligent people vote to remain in the EU?


gcarth Plus
17 4.2k 1 United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 12:10PM
Ouch! This could be lively! Wink

Quote:From BBC article: "The BBC has obtained a more localised breakdown of votes from nearly half of the local authorities which counted EU referendum ballots last June.
This information provides much greater depth and detail in explaining the pattern of how the UK voted. The key findings are:
The data confirms previous indications that local results were strongly associated with the educational attainment of voters - populations with lower qualifications were significantly more likely to vote Leave. (The data for this analysis comes from one in nine wards)."

franken Plus
19 5.3k 4 United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 12:20PM

Quote:Ouch! This could be lively! Wink

Quote:From BBC article: "The BBC has obtained a more localised breakdown of votes from nearly half of the local authorities which counted EU referendum ballots last June.
This information provides much greater depth and detail in explaining the pattern of how the UK voted. The key findings are:
The data confirms previous indications that local results were strongly associated with the educational attainment of voters - populations with lower qualifications were significantly more likely to vote Leave. (The data for this analysis comes from one in nine wards)."




How did they arrive at this conclusion when the only option was to tick leave or stay?
LenShepherd 13 4.4k United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 12:41PM
Was the run-up to the vote "fair"?
But for project fear (particularly Osborn's prediction of doom 10 days before intended IMO to frighten Leave voters) the vote could have been 60% out.
Most people in business seemed to me to vote to leave.
There are indications from USA (today's Telegraph) that a significant recovery is likely once negotiations start.
If the nation votes a Labour or Conservative government in at a general election the population "gets on with it" - for better for worse - because that is the purpose of an election.
brian1208 18 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 12:43PM
I spotted this elsewhere and as someone who used statistics as a tool for my work offered two alternative interpretations you may enjoy

1 - those who voted Remain came from the richest, most educated and multi-cultural regions, ie: the most privileged voted to remain, but since by definition they are also a minority of the population the can't expect to have won

2 - those areas with the largest number not voting were those with the largest population of under 24 year old

So, its the fault of the young and privileged that the country voted to Leave

Proving, you can make statistics say what ever you want Grin
DaveRyder Plus
7 5.8k 13 United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 1:07PM
There's lies, damn lies and more lies....

Then there's statistics.

As a graduate chemist with a decent job, a former chairman of the local section of a chemistry society and a good tax payer to boot - all I can say is....

I've waited since Maastricht for the opportunity to find the exit door.

The Common Market was a good thing. Monetary and political union is not.

I get on well with my neighbours but I don't give them access to my bank accounts or expect them to pay my bills (Although I do occasionally cut there grass when they're away).
keithh 17 25.8k 33 Wallis And Futuna
6 Feb 2017 1:19PM
Well I did went and voted that the United British Iles remane.
brian1208 18 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 1:21PM
clearly your fault then Keith! Grin
gcarth Plus
17 4.2k 1 United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 1:37PM

Quote:There's lies, damn lies and more lies....

Then there's statistics.

As a graduate chemist with a decent job, a former chairman of the local section of a chemistry society and a good tax payer to boot - all I can say is....

I've waited since Maastricht for the opportunity to find the exit door.

The Common Market was a good thing. Monetary and political union is not.

I get on well with my neighbours but I don't give them access to my bank accounts or expect them to pay my bills (Although I do occasionally cut there grass when they're away).

Yes, I agree that monetary union is not a good thing. I'm on the fence about political union: However, I fear that because of Britain's outdated class system and arrogant "Imperial" sense of entitlement and superiority and lack of enlightenment, we are likely to lose many of the decent Health and Safety Rules, Worker's Rights and Human Rights after Brexit.
I was a "Corbynite" "7 out of 10 for remaining."Smile
What I hated about the Referendum campaign was the racial hatred that it stirred up and that was largely down to the irresponsibility of the mainstream media.
ChrisV 14 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 3:03PM
My sense is that a lot of people voted on emotion rather than calculation.

Two of my good friends voted leave and I can't get a clearly articulated rationale for doing so. One has quoted the mantra 'take back control', but I fear a lot of that is based on the myths that have been propagated [or at best largely unchallenged] by the media for the last few decades.

For instance we're repeatedly told that most law for that period of time has come out of the EU. It is of course a bit of a sleight of hand that the vast majority of that is more regulation than anything in the criminal code. [Mostly to facilitate the single market]. Even then much of that is based on complete misapprehension.

This was perfectly illustrated the other night by a woman in the Question Time audience who was venting her frustration at 'straight bananas' in the supermarkets. She could perhaps be forgiven [and it still wasn't corrected] for thinking that sort of thing was EU edict. In fact British supermarkets make up their own rules on that sort of thing and don't need any assistance whatever from the EU in making up the most absurd and restrictive specifications for the produce they are prepared to put on their shelves.

The EU has been such a whipping boy for every perceived woe, it isn't really surprising a lot of resentment has added to the many real faults that were at its door. Someone at my local supermarket fish counter assured me the price of fish [his haddock and my swordfish] would be cheaper 'once we get all our fishing territory back'. Aside from the advisability of not holding your breath waiting for prices to fall, it's also harking back to a time when we had far more than our fair share of territorial waters. If that's calculated on land mass, or even on the proportion of coastline to sea area, we're still to the good and that is far from likely to improve post-Brexit. To say that most voters did not concern themselves with such niceties is a bit of an understatement. The idea has been so unchallenged for so long most people 'know' it's the case anyway...

Anyone reading this will probably have little doubt I think leaving is a bit of a disaster. I will however say, the case needed to be better made by the remain side and countering lies with other lies was always a bad idea. I have llittle time for those who now suggest [as some of Labour's old Blairites seem keen] it's OK to ignore or try to overturn what is a clear democratic mandate.

We have to make the best of the course we're now set on.
altitude50 17 21.8k United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 3:09PM
Well, my wife and I put the cross on opposite sides of the forms. So we cancelled each other out. Does that make her more intelligent than me or the other way round? I'm not saying.Smile
brian1208 18 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 3:26PM

Quote:Does that make her more intelligent than me or the other way round?


How long have you been married?

I thought we all knew that our wives are more intelligent than us - by definition Wink
seahawk 14 1.4k United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 3:32PM
Well I voted Leave, as did the wife and son. We're all well educated, we all have degrees so I think we can say we are pretty well educated.
I voted for the EEC back in the 70's - I had no problem with the trading bloc. I also have no problem with the concept of a Federal EU. My problem is with a) the way the EU is currently constituted (it is fundamentally undemocratic), b) the Euro is a flawed entity which has caused economic stagnation in S. Europe and c) the fact that the Commission seems unable to grasp both of those issues and therefore is unwilling to reform them. Therefore the EU leaders must be forced to introduce reform some other way and the best way is to leave. Given that there is significant unrest in France, Netherlands, Germany I think it's fair to say that many people in the EU have grasped the fact that there are problems and they are getting agitated about it.
The basic problem is that EU leaders have succumbed to Lord Acton's maxim that 'power corrupts...etc' and cannot admit that they've got it wrong so they will have to be kicked until they do.
I predict that without serious reform of its structure the Euro will collapse within 5 years, possibly sooner, and I think the UK is best out of it when the 'manure really hits the ventilation system'. To stay in when that happens really would be a disaster for us even though we are not in the Euro.
ChrisV 14 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 3:51PM

Quote:My problem is with a) the way the EU is currently constituted (it is fundamentally undemocratic),


In what way? I think the EU feels undemocratic [because PR always feels like the direct link between voter and representative is broken], but it really isn't - although it's astonishing how many people think they don't get a vote in the EU parliament. If the argument is about the commission [which is all appointees] that body is of course not in any way autonomous - only the parliament and the council have legislative authority. I suppose you could argue the commission does have more power than the equivalent of the civil service, but like the civil service it is a body that needs both expertise and a degree of political neutrality in order to do the daily business of the legislature. There are members of the council [that's representatives of the respective governments] that aren't directly elected, but that's because some of them are from the Lords. From Britain.


Quote:I predict that without serious reform of its structure the Euro will collapse within 5 years, possibly sooner, and I think the UK is best out of it when the 'manure really hits the ventilation system'. To stay in when that happens really would be a disaster for us even though we are not in the Euro.



You might well be right about that - the Euro could not be successful without a full fiscal [ie not just the currency] union, which arguably isn't achievable without [at least very near] political union. In hindsight the monetary union was something of a ploy to accelerate that process.

To some degree I felt we had something approaching the best of both worlds by being in the single market without being in the currency union. If and when the latter collapses, I fear we will not be immune from the fallout. The EU could well collapse in the next decade - I can't say I don't find the prospect of that a bit unnerving, to say the least.
gcarth Plus
17 4.2k 1 United Kingdom
6 Feb 2017 4:58PM

Quote:Given that there is significant unrest in France, Netherlands, Germany I think it's fair to say that many people in the EU have grasped the fact that there are problems and they are getting agitated about it.
Yes, I think the EU may soon start breaking up anyway and so it is possible that the remainers like me wouldn't have made any difference.
I still think it was highly irresponsible of Cameron not to be prepared with any plan for the possibility of Brexit. Equally, I think it was highly irresponsible for the more rightist elements of UKIP and others to whip up racism in order to sway the vote their way.
I think there were obviously plenty of educated people voting for leaving but rather more of them voting to remain. More of the less well educated from deprived areas voted for leaving because of the cynical media lies and distortions about immigration, etc.
6 Feb 2017 5:04PM
Would you all want a vote on the 'exit' package or would you rather leave that decision to the current government?

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