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11 Sep 2014 12:52PM
I've just got a coloredge cx 271 & I have some questions - hope someone can help !

1) I'm using lightroom, when I softproof for sRGB & set the monitor gamut warning on I get gamut warnings - why is this ? The monitor should do all of sRGB !
2) I'm finding that when I print to the Epson 3880 my prints are too light - I've recalibrated the display to the maximum recommended 120 cd m2 & the prints are STILL too light!

I calibrated with spyder 4 pro & CN 6. Windows 8.1

Any help appreciated

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Chris_L 5 5.0k United Kingdom
12 Sep 2014 1:00AM
While you wait for Eizo's response I can tell you a little about what I sussed out about darkness / lightness of prints versus monitors. Like many people before me I thought that having calibrated my monitor that I'd achieve wysiwyg prints.

When that didn't happen I started to get my head round the luminance thing and the way I came to understand things was to get some prints, even a magazine will do, then take the images outside in very bright sunlight, try it. Look at the detail that's revealed in the shadows. Take it inside and look under different lamps and in different rooms at different times of day and notice how different it actually looks. That's what the backlight on your monitor does in a way - it's the lightsource that shines on your image.

I was getting dark prints at the time so I turned down my monitor brightness. Processed the images with the lower brightness monitor and my prints matched.

In your case you should try a higher brightness setting on your monitor. You can even eye match by finding some shadow detail in a recent print, get that image on the screen and increase the backlight til you see the same shadow detail on your monitor - I realise it will look too light as your print does, but that's a match, now when you process the image so it looks correct on your brighter monitor it will look right on your print. Hope you follow the logic.
Nick_w Plus
12 4.3k 99 England
12 Sep 2014 4:59PM
I too had problems matching print to the screen. I'm not sure Chris turning up the brightnesss is the answer. Although I don't make final decisions before I view the image in full difused daylight (i.e in the conservatory on a cloudy day!). Be careful examining under artificial light, as Metamorism with the pigments can have a big effect (its why M&S insist their packaging is examined in a lightbox, containing lights of the same wavelenth as is installed in store).

But your right there is a world of difference between reflected and transmitted light.

The main problem I found was the effective colourspace of the paper, Escaladieu, before printing make a duplicate of the image, then on the original go into soft proof, select the profile for the paper, and the rendering intent. Then flick back to the original image (without soft proofing on) you will probably see a subtle difference. You may have to make a minor curves and or hue/saturation ajustment to get it looking just right right.

Keith wrote a good article on it, although there are a few chanes in the upto date versions of Photoshop, like if you select photoshop manages colour, you dont need to turn off the printers profiling as it does it automatically (at least in Photoshop CC 2014, mac version - took me 2 hours scratching my head to work it out).

Mods: Not sure how to do it but may be worth spliting into 2 threads, one for the formal Eizo replies and one for members replies
12 Sep 2014 6:24PM

Quote:While you wait for Eizo's response I can tell you a little about what I sussed out about darkness / lightness of prints versus monitors. Like many people before me I thought that having calibrated my monitor that I'd achieve wysiwyg prints.

When that didn't happen I started to get my head round the luminance thing and the way I came to understand things was to get some prints, even a magazine will do, then take the images outside in very bright sunlight, try it. Look at the detail that's revealed in the shadows. Take it inside and look under different lamps and in different rooms at different times of day and notice how different it actually looks. That's what the backlight on your monitor does in a way - it's the lightsource that shines on your image.

I was getting dark prints at the time so I turned down my monitor brightness. Processed the images with the lower brightness monitor and my prints matched.

In your case you should try a higher brightness setting on your monitor. You can even eye match by finding some shadow detail in a recent print, get that image on the screen and increase the backlight til you see the same shadow detail on your monitor - I realise it will look too light as your print does, but that's a match, now when you process the image so it looks correct on your brighter monitor it will look right on your print. Hope you follow the logic.



Thanks for taking the time to respond - I am setting the monitor brighter to match the prints - but I've reached the maximum recommended brightness of 120 cd m2 - it is possible in CN to increase the range but its "not recommended" what I'd like to know is what is the downside of increasing the range - will it shorten the life of the monitor or perhaps affect colour accuracy ?
12 Sep 2014 6:35PM

Quote:I too had problems matching print to the screen. I'm not sure Chris turning up the brightnesss is the answer. Although I don't make final decisions before I view the image in full difused daylight (i.e in the conservatory on a cloudy day!). Be careful examining under artificial light, as Metamorism with the pigments can have a big effect (its why M&S insist their packaging is examined in a lightbox, containing lights of the same wavelenth as is installed in store).

But your right there is a world of difference between reflected and transmitted light.

The main problem I found was the effective colourspace of the paper, Escaladieu, before printing make a duplicate of the image, then on the original go into soft proof, select the profile for the paper, and the rendering intent. Then flick back to the original image (without soft proofing on) you will probably see a subtle difference. You may have to make a minor curves and or hue/saturation ajustment to get it looking just right right.

Keith wrote a good article on it, although there are a few chanes in the upto date versions of Photoshop, like if you select photoshop manages colour, you dont need to turn off the printers profiling as it does it automatically (at least in Photoshop CC 2014, mac version - took me 2 hours scratching my head to work it out).

Mods: Not sure how to do it but may be worth spliting into 2 threads, one for the formal Eizo replies and one for members replies



Thanks for your response - I am soft proofing in both PS & LR with the same result - the prints are too light. In LR I create a proof copy turn on soft proofing & create a proof copy. I check "simulate paper and ink" set the target paper and get both the original and proofed copy up side by side. I then edit the proof copy to get it as close to the original as I can. No issue with this at all, I set LR to manage colours and set the epson driver colour management off. The only issue is that the prints are too light & I've adjusted the monitor to its maximum recommended brightness. This is a bit irritating since I bought the monitor to address the issue of the prints being too dark !
I may try a recal with the Spyder calibration software & turn off CN to see if this improves matters. I'm worried that I may have a faulty unit - I'm still within the return period so I'm hoping someone from eizo will get back to me soon!
Chris_L 5 5.0k United Kingdom
12 Sep 2014 6:44PM
Are you able to get a Paper White measurement in Color Navigator? CN would then autoset. I think you can go up to 200. How do you find 120 for general use, if you look at other photos on the web and at grayscale charts etc? Does it seem too dark or too light in the room you use it in?
Chris_L 5 5.0k United Kingdom
12 Sep 2014 6:47PM
Having just read your other reply, I'm a bit worried that you've got Spyder software still installed, have you fully disabled it? Have you tried resetting printer driver to default, got rid of any custom gamma curves etc etc. Checked your video driver isn't overriding things? (Many of those have gamma controls now)
12 Sep 2014 7:55PM

Quote:Having just read your other reply, I'm a bit worried that you've got Spyder software still installed, have you fully disabled it? Have you tried resetting printer driver to default, got rid of any custom gamma curves etc etc. Checked your video driver isn't overriding things? (Many of those have gamma controls now)


Thanks, yes, I've disabled it. 120 in the room I'm in is too bright for general use - I only use it for Photo editing. The room is quite dark. The video driver should be loading the profile that CN has produced into the video card & CN loads the profile into the monitor LUT so I think that there are no video issues. Maybe I can try using another video card to see what happens. I've just recalibrated at a target of 130 and the prints are just a little too bright. So maybe I'm almost there ... The printer has been reset to default, both on the unit & in the driver. How does one go about getting a paper white setting in CN ?

Also do you know of an approved video adapters for EIZO ? Reason I'm asking is that I'm shooting in Adobe RGB & when I import RAWs into LR I get Monitor Gamut warnings - the monitor has been set up with CN to emulate Adobe RGB & this should be reflected in the monitor profile ... but lightroom says parts of the image are out of gamut. I don't see why this is. I believe I get 8 bit colour with the DVI connector I'm using - there's no displayport connector on my Video card and as I understand it, one needs a displayport connection to get 10 bit colour. I'm happy to get another adapter with a displayport connector but it would need a 10bit path through it to reap the benefit ...
Does anyone from EIZO actually monitor this forum ?
Chris_L 5 5.0k United Kingdom
12 Sep 2014 8:25PM
If your monitor has built-in calibration I don't think it's possible to measure paper brightness. I don't own an Eizo and it's just stuff I've picked up reading other posts over the years. I do have Spyder and I know it only solves print colour matching, that lightness / darkness involves some trial and error unless you get the top of the range device which I believe 'looks' at your prints and adjusts your printer profile.

Eizo don't monitor this forum but questions raised are sent to them once a month. Again, I'm guessing, but I think it was set up with the intention of potential purchasers asking general questions rather than as a tech support forum.

I expect they have some kind of online tech support or phone support, worth checking their site in case it speeds up the answers.
1 Oct 2014 10:23AM
Thank you for your assistance Nick and Chris - it's appreciated. I've been on my jollies so haven't seen the posts until now. Smile

Jeff; I've sent your questions over to EIZO so hopefully it won't be too long until we get a response.
Chris_L 5 5.0k United Kingdom
1 Oct 2014 3:37PM
Nik, considering the amount of questions, very low really, I think Eizo could have somebody who logs in every day or two and answers any queries. Looks better for them if things are solved faster and better for the person who asks, wins all round; rather than the bulk approach which probably doesn't save as much time as imagined?
13 Oct 2014 9:51PM

Quote:Hi,

What is the difference between an EIZO monitor and a similar Dell Ultrasharp monitor? As I've read they both use IPS panels?

What does wide-gamut mean?

Are you planning on releasing a 4K monitor, and what kind of computer would I need to use a 4K monitor?

Thanks

William



Hello William,

Sorry for the delay in answering your question.

The difference in an EIZO ColorEdge monitor begins with the design, there are EIZO ASICs that are dedicated to bringing the maximum image performance in displaying your work. Every EIZO ColorEdge is calibrated in the factory before it begins the journey to your desk, so you know the results will be accurate. We even measure the ambient temperature so the monitor is responding to your environment. The IPS panels used by EIZO are manufactured to our specifications, delivering distinctly more accurate display of the photograph or video than other monitors.

Let me know if that answers your question?

Victor
13 Oct 2014 9:55PM

Quote:I shoot landscape photography and process images for printing on an Epson 9900 (ProPhoto RGB) and post on the web (sRGB). I recently purchased CG277 for its custom internal calibration. There seems to be many variables with the monitor and little or conflicting guidance in the manual. Thus, I have a few questions:

If I want to print using ProPhoto RGB, I am assuming I customize the calibration with ProPhoto RGB as the starting point. At the point in the calibration process to “verify” - what do I use to “verify”?

Once I have custom calibrated the monitor do I use the Custom or RGB mode on the Monitor to work from?

Once I have custom calibrated the monitor, in Photoshop what color space / profile do I work from?



There is a catch in using ProPhoto colour space that may not be immediately obvious, it is understandable to want the maximum that can technically delivered, but not at the expense of creative quality. The RAW file is by default Adobe 98, yes in areas it may capture more colour but that additional coverage is not uniform and the converters will almost certainly process it to Adobe 98.

When you begin to edit the file the maximum display colour space (native) is only slightly larger than Adobe 98. The result if you set your colour space to ProPhoto, there is colour you cannot see on an image that only contains colour that is in the Adobe 98 colour space. If you now make edits to your photographs you are effectively working with the invisible, because the monitor cannot display the full prophoto colour space.

The recommended process would be to set the colour space to Adobe 98 consistently through your workflow, the validation you should use is the standard RGB.

This would be better as a conversation...

Victor
13 Oct 2014 10:07PM

Quote:Thanks for the comment above. Very helpful.

As mentioned I shoot landscape photography and want to make the best use of my CG277 for printing on my Epson 9900. Here is what I think I have learned to best calibrate.

Use the Color Nav software to custom calibrate
Create New Target - Manual
Gamut - ProPhoto RGB or native Monitor?
Brightness - 60 (as I often print too dark)
White point - D65
Set Black - Min
Tone Curve 1.8
Priority - standard

Process and validate target of Basic RGB?

Any comments would be appreciated.



If I may suggest some slightly different settings and why:
- Gamut: Set to Adobe RGB 1998 - no monitor is capable of showing ProPhoto as such you can't see what your changing, this can lead to odd effects when you change the colour space later.
- Brightness, 60 cd/m^2 is good if the ambient light where you view prints is that level of illumination as you perceive it!
- Gamma (Tone curve) 2.2 your choice of 1.8 works if it matches the paper your using
- Priority, you might prefer the shadows in Grey balance?

Victor
13 Oct 2014 10:15PM

Quote:I've just got a coloredge cx 271 & I have some questions - hope someone can help !

1) I'm using lightroom, when I softproof for sRGB & set the monitor gamut warning on I get gamut warnings - why is this ? The monitor should do all of sRGB !
2) I'm finding that when I print to the Epson 3880 my prints are too light - I've recalibrated the display to the maximum recommended 120 cd m2 & the prints are STILL too light!

I calibrated with spyder 4 pro & CN 6. Windows 8.1

Any help appreciated



This will sound a bit backwards; the brighter the monitor the darker the prints and the darker the monitor the lighter the prints. BUT, the balance is you, it is how you see the print on screen and in your hand that matters. The ideal environment you will have the monitor brightness set the same as the room / print viewing area, don't use a meter to measure it it is how you see it.

To assist you can buy reference prints, there is a Kodak set, Loxley do them too; with the reference file on screen and the print where you view them you can asses the brightness of both and adjust accordingly.

Hope that helps

Victor