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DonnaN 8 129 United Kingdom
12 Nov 2009 8:11PM
Great idea and sounds similar to a suggestion I made in response to Pete's thread, on possible potential additions to the site, a few weeks back now. Something along these lines would really help beginners (and obviously other levels but I feel it would address an area where beginners really lose out at the moment) - their pictures can then be assessed against how they are developing as individuals, rather than whether their pictures match up to those people who have far more experience, which is what currently happens when uploading to the gallery. Great idea , Ketch; some positive encouragement is never a bad thing and this would certainly aid in providing this!

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ketch 10 770 50 Turks And Caicos Islands
12 Nov 2009 10:57PM
Cheers Donna - At least someone picked up on the gist of what I though was a very simple idea - of course we have a PF comment function (bloody hell I have been on here for two years so I have managed to pick up on this one). No what I am suggesting is that at any time we can submit our PF's for critique and analysis along the lines of submitting an image to the critique gallery.

HOWEVER - I still don't see what is wrong with a best in PF award either - like I say we all need a bit of encouragement even if we are just 'joe average' but it seems to me that there is a group of decent beginners and struggling intermediates who do get left to wither on the vine. Perhaps because they are the least likely group to kick up a fuss. But for the site's longer term health if nothing else, perhaps this idea is worth kicking around a little more.

Rather than the somewhat dismissive 'oh but this is already done' and 'self help, do it through the threads' sort of treatment which is well wide of the mark anyway - can't we check out the ideas?

I don't do Mr Angry very well and I really don't want to fall out with anyone about anything so slight - so please treat these notes simply as my observations, they are not matters of life or death and I will still be here in the morning whatever (God willing).

Pete Plus
16 18.8k 97 England
13 Nov 2009 9:10AM
I'm not dismissing anything either, but we do have a lot to do with existing ideas that were requested and have been added and are not being used by many.

We are currently going through a redesign of the site, bringing the code up another level. In that process each area is getting a rethink in its working. It's all happening behind the scenes and areas are slowly updating. So I'm reluctant to add another section, which seems what you want, at the moment.

When the new system is finished and if there's enough demand then we would look at it. Two new ideas have recently been suggested and both have been implemented using the existing system which has space. So that's why I'm asking that ideas like you've had could be more or less accommodated in what we have...and if they work we'll go the next stage...but it won't be until the new year. We have a totally new equipment section to develop.
Coleslaw 12 13.4k 28 Wales
13 Nov 2009 11:06AM
Looking at the current reception of that C&C thread, might be a waste of time, Pete.
ketch 10 770 50 Turks And Caicos Islands
13 Nov 2009 11:16AM
Hi Pete

Thanks for your considered response and that is fine, like I mentioned earlier this is not life and death.

But just to correct one thing this wasn't really something I desperately wanted for myself but rather something that I genuinely felt could help with site attrition rates (well two things that could help but both so closely related and they could be rolled up together).

There is a big gap between the 'lock in mechanisms' used on the site (between say RC's and HC's as an example) and no doubt you can do a simple analysis of who leaves the site and where they were on a notional ladder of progression and acheivement. My guess would be however that the high profile departures are largely from those locked well into the system (Eg a flounce with HR/EC) - the reason for this is that the 'lesser lights' those unadorned with such gongs, quietly fade and go out.

As a result I suspect (know) that the site is littered with inactive and forgotten PF's, great examples of work but never being recognised beyond perhaps a 'peer to peer' level. The simple system proposed, which does not require any amendments to the way the site works and doesn't require any additional capacity (actually maybe additional HR resource, but minimal) may revive many of these deserted and abandoned PF's and help with retention for those that are still just ticking along.

I guess what I am really saying is that you can't address feelings of a lack of feedback (which surely do contribute to attrition rates) by suggestions of self help. I am sure you will appreciate the irony in this position, if nothing else.

Anyway on this I would say that I am being diven by a slightly higher motive than personal interest, but I am also aware that I don't have a good track record in making site suggestions that work!! So please do feel free to mark me down as a meddling old bugger who probably should know better - alternatively it might just be worth a second look?
Pete Plus
16 18.8k 97 England
13 Nov 2009 11:48AM

Quote:As a result I suspect (know) that the site is littered with inactive and forgotten PF's, great examples of work but never being recognised beyond perhaps a 'peer to peer' level.

I hear what you're saying but I don't believe we are alone in the problem.
As an experiment I have put images on three large sites that people say they get good feedback. I have had none. On flickr my pictures that got near a 100 comments on here has had one comment in two years. I really don't think it's down to the site, but more the person's activity on the site. I could of course be wrong, but we are far busier in terms of comments and votes than most sites I've seen.
And now with the new suggestions for critique/groups it seems commenting is going up. I visited one photo this morning and was stunned at the depth of commenting.
That said I'm not dismissing your idea. It would be good to lift portfolios of those who choose not to get involved. And have offered suggestions to kick start that without us having to build anything. As you're so behind it why not give it a go?
Just Jas Plus
15 26.1k 1 England
13 Nov 2009 12:00PM

Quote:Lego was Ok, But Meccano was my thing, Except you just never seemed to have enough spare Nuts....

So I'll make a bolt for the door.......///////////

Washer matter, Vince? Try screwtinising eBay! Wink

(See who gets through the door first! Smile )
Robin_TB 8 204 9 United Kingdom
13 Nov 2009 12:01PM
I linked to the C and C thread and thought it was an excellent idea. However, at the moment I feel that my PF is not worth looking at in that much detail by the assembled EPZ. Too few pictures for a start, mostly posted in the Critique gallery or for the Critique Buddies groups. I came on to the site to get Critique and hence try to improve, which I feel like I am acheiving (although slowly!). I also enjoy critiqueing others but feel that I cannot offer the best advice due to lack of experience/technical know how. maybe thats a personal confidence issue though Smile

That doesn't make it a bad idea and I think the uptake is down due the fact that it is already a few pages down in the 'Recent Activity' list (which tends to be my regular button, unless I am after something specific).

The peer to peer idea is one I like but it could be difficult to arrange, as who would be the judge of an individuals level? Would it be self assesment? Happy to be a guinea pig for the scheme or anything similar that comes about.

Diana 10 2.0k 19 Netherlands
13 Nov 2009 12:02PM

Quote:And now with the new suggestions for critique/groups it seems commenting is going up. I visited one photo this morning and was stunned at the depth of commenting

and 8 people have now joined my night 'tography group so I'm a very happy (EPZ) bunny Wink

as well as really enjoying Nicks critique thing he has going on ...just fab....and challenging enough.... I have been inspired to find and buy a new book (Diana and Nikon) about the Aesthetics of photography (a psychonalytical perspective/analysis)

and now I have also been inspired to shoot infra red through my plastic Diana from someone in my night photography group (how did that happen) ??

its all great from my eyes Pete

the sites gone wild where are you NOT looking Ketch?
Just Jas Plus
15 26.1k 1 England
13 Nov 2009 12:05PM
A plastic Diana...??? The mind boggles!

A sort of near relative to Miss Polly Thene? Wink

Not to mention Barbie..!
Diana 10 2.0k 19 Netherlands
13 Nov 2009 12:06PM
its a 1960's plastic toy camera I use it a lot and cross process slide film from it (it has a cult following) so much so that they are being re made, mine is an original (of course!)

I had one when I was a kid, cos of my name ...
Just Jas Plus
15 26.1k 1 England
13 Nov 2009 12:08PM
Whew..!! What a relief..! Wink

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