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Election predictions: The sequel


ChrisV 14 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
13 Jun 2017 2:22PM
Yeah, I don't buy the 'silence is acquiescence', argument either. It's the same argument the Tories use to try and insist more than 50% of the total constituency [for a ballot] is needed for strike action in spite of making it as difficult as possible for workers to vote.

I would make voting compulsory [with the right of course, to actively abstain or indicate a 'none of the above']. I imagine a lot of people who didn't vote in the referendum, couldn't make up their minds or felt honestly that they didn't know enough to make a judgement.

The issues and implications are so complex I couldn't possibly claim to have made a comprehensively informed decision - like almost everyone I went with my gut on a broad brush understanding. Those who claim they made a decision fully understanding what they were voting on very often don't want to argue on the merits of the decision and once they do, it's pretty clear they have some fundamental misunderstandings about pretty important things.

Nevertheless, in spite of the fact the vote didn't go the way I wanted, the public were offered the right to make their choice.

You can't be a democrat just when it suits you.
13 Jun 2017 8:22PM
I object to the ubiquitous 'the British people have spoken' when actually many British people didn't.
ChrisV 14 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
13 Jun 2017 9:33PM
Those who don't speak can hardly expect to be heard.
StrayCat 17 19.1k 3 Canada
13 Jun 2017 10:48PM

Quote:The issues and implications are so complex I couldn't possibly claim to have made a comprehensively informed decision - like almost everyone I went with my gut on a broad brush understanding. Those who claim they made a decision fully understanding what they were voting on very often don't want to argue on the merits of the decision and once they do, it's pretty clear they have some fundamental misunderstandings about pretty important things.



How would you know about the important issues in the election if the communication sources are totally untrustworthy? Opinions are one thing, but the way the MSM projects their completely partisan views as indisputable fact is misinforming the people intentionally. Never mind an investigation of Russian interference in our elections, what about the media? They're far worse than any outside interference could possibly be.
ChrisV 14 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
14 Jun 2017 12:32AM

Quote:
Quote:The issues and implications are so complex I couldn't possibly claim to have made a comprehensively informed decision - like almost everyone I went with my gut on a broad brush understanding. Those who claim they made a decision fully understanding what they were voting on very often don't want to argue on the merits of the decision and once they do, it's pretty clear they have some fundamental misunderstandings about pretty important things.



How would you know about the important issues in the election if the communication sources are totally untrustworthy? Opinions are one thing, but the way the MSM projects their completely partisan views as indisputable fact is misinforming the people intentionally. Never mind an investigation of Russian interference in our elections, what about the media? They're far worse than any outside interference could possibly be.



That really touches on what I was getting at. Quite a few people I spoke to parroted the line that the EU is somehow wholly undemocratix (it's not) and has imposed laws on us without any sort of democratic accountability (on the whole it hasn't). But the media in this country has for years routinely mischaracterised the institutions and functions of the EU - blaming it for most of our problems as well as being the source of the mass of our immigration (and again that's under 59% in spite of free movement).

The media is a small self-selecting bubble. It's a socially liberal elite that is also predisposed to free market capital (which owns the vast bulk of it). The disconnect between that weltenschaung and the experience of the masses has become more stark as those in the bubble have become more remote.

There is some degree of deliberate misdirection. But I think a lot of what is proceeded is not 'fake news' as such, but just a very loaded point of view which I think many of the journalists simply don't realise the extent of the bias. It's disconnected from both left and reactionary right and lends lots of credence to the idea of fake news because of that.

It's sloppy, it's irresponsible and it's very, very dangerous because it opens the door to alt facts which can prey upon the darkest of fears and the angriest of instincts.
thewilliam2 4 1.6k United Kingdom
14 Jun 2017 8:59AM
Successive governments have blamed their own policies on the EU and have made a point of "gold-plating" EU Directives.

One of my wife's golfing chums was forced to destroy her orchards because they yielded the "wrong variety" of apple or under-size fruit. She was forbidden even to use them for making juice! Could you imagine the French doing that? Cheese from unpasteurized milk is still available in France because it's delicious.

Many of the EU Directives have been very useful. Our beaches are cleaner than I've ever seen them and sea swimming is no longer a matter of "going through the motions". Will the employment protection legislation be repealed so that unscrupulous employers no longer have any limits? In our part of the country, the NMW has become the normal wage for many folk.

The people who really rule the country and own the governments of both colours seem to have decided that the best interest for "our people" lies in having a compliant, ignorant and impoverished proletariat who won't be protected by any troublesome laws.
Carabosse 18 41.6k 270 England
14 Jun 2017 11:29AM

Quote:
Successive governments have blamed their own policies on the EU and have made a point of "gold-plating" EU Directives



Absolutely. The French, for example, are happy to ignore EU directives. They do not seem to suffer any adverse consequences!
StrayCat 17 19.1k 3 Canada
14 Jun 2017 7:14PM

Quote:It's sloppy, it's irresponsible and it's very, very dangerous because it opens the door to alt facts which can prey upon the darkest of fears and the angriest of instincts.


Thankfully, it failed, and showed its true colors last year in the US. I hope people all over the world learned to take the press with a grain of salt. I watched it in all its glory yesterday as the Senate Committee tasked with investigating Russian interference in the US election last year grilled the Attorney General on the witness stand. He did an admirable job of fending off the liberal witch hunters and leaving them completely frustrated. However, the real entertainment was watching CNN and its loaded panels of "experts" pick tiny clips of the proceedings out of context and try to turn it into a liberal victory, it was hilarious, better than any sitcom will ever be. They started with speculation, and by the end of the program their speculation had become hard facts, in their own minds. I believe they're mental, too bad, I used to enjoy watching the shenanigans on CNN up to a year ago.

Here's an example of how bad things really are: one of the regulars on CNN, who was an elected Senator, or governor or something at one point in his life, has stated that what really bothers him most, is that the entertainers, and other celebrities, have lost the respect of the people. Seriously, that was his biggest regret at his party's loss last year.
dcash29 15 2.4k England
14 Jun 2017 9:16PM
I say there's to many clever people in the opposition parties and general public who seem to think they have all the right answers?

The record is getting boring Wink

lobsterboy Plus
17 14.9k 13 United Kingdom
14 Jun 2017 10:47PM

Quote:I say there's to many clever people in the opposition parties and general public who seem to think they have all the right answers?


Probably just as well as there don't seem to be any in the government Wink
ChrisV 14 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
14 Jun 2017 11:25PM

Quote:
Quote:I say there's to many clever people in the opposition parties and general public who seem to think they have all the right answers?


Probably just as well as there don't seem to be any in the government Wink



There are plenty in the government who have all the right answers.

Just not necessarily to the right questions. I'll give you that, sunshine. I'll give you that.*

*with apologies to the much missed Mr Bartholomew.
jondf 14 2.8k
15 Jun 2017 10:42AM

Quote:So two predictions - when does May go and when do we get on this merry go round of elections next?


She's hanging on in there and will continue to do so, waiting for the dust to settle. In the meantime the Tories will do what they're good at, going round back-stabbing any unfortunate that happens to get in the way. The mess we're in was started by the Tories running scared of Ukip. Cameron took a gamble he didn't think he'd lose and when he did, you didn't see him for the dust. The awful and avoidable occurrence at Grenfell Tower seems to be symptomatic of the general state the country's in. We need to decide if we want to live in a fair, equitable and truthful society otherwise it'll be more of the same from the Tories.

Carabosse 18 41.6k 270 England
15 Jun 2017 11:56AM
I predict there is going to be a Queen's Speech next Wednesday. Smile
ChrisV 14 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
15 Jun 2017 1:30PM

Quote:I predict there is going to be a Queen's Speech next Wednesday. Smile


The leaked document reads:

Her Majesty's government pledges to continue to warn against the dangers of Mr Corbyn - a committed pacifist and supporter of terrorist murders.

We also plan a significant modification of our offer to the electorate. To wit - the tree in our party's logo will now feature several large oranges hanging from its branches.

That is all.

.......

I think that might just squeak past the party faithful.
thewilliam2 4 1.6k United Kingdom
15 Jun 2017 2:04PM

Quote:
Her Majesty's government pledges to continue to warn against the dangers of Mr Corbyn - a committed pacifist and supporter of terrorist murders.



I'm far from a Corbyn supporter but how does a committed pacifist support terrorist murderers?

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